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More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

theatlantic.com

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Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#901

Post by misiti3780 »

toshk wrote: post #368

Of course people are done with it. Vaccinations were sold as the solution to the pandemic. Yet worldwide infections are going up at the same speed if not faster than before vaccinations. But no policy maker acknowledges this. They refer to the lowered death rate, or blame a new variant. But it means that policy that gave people more freedom because of their vaccination status are not having any significant effect on…

Totally, but that trust has been long gone in the US.

1/2 the population stopped paying attention to Dr. Fauci after he lied about masks (understandably). Then we were told that that funerals were bad, but outdoor protests were ok. Then it was racist to even consider the virus came from a lab leak. Then Fauci claimed that technically, he didn't fund gain of function research (in the most scripted,PR speak possible). Then we were told that vaccines would allow us to go back to normal. The level of trust lost by major institutions in the US, both medical and media-based is astounding. Biden said he would end the virus, then he said that there is no federal policy to stop the virus. Trump was racist/xenophobic for closing boarders to China, but Biden closed boarders with South Africa and wasn't racist/xenophobic.

This isn't about politics, im double vaxxed and survived omicron. This is about a huge failure across the board, and I'm not sure how you turn it around. We need to change some of the political systems in the US. There needs to be term limits (in congress, supreme court, executive branch). The executive branch needs age limits, with a hard cut-off at like 65. The fact that the choice in 2020 was between septuagenarians is pathetic.

If you spent 1% of your time paying attention to anything called media, the gaslighting is obvious.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#902

Post by belorn »

testplzignore wrote: post #758
belorn wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be much more concerned about omicron. The flu is very unlikely to have any long term effects as long one keep an eye on the fever. We don't know about the long term effects of omicron. What we do know about covid is for example fatigue and long term lung damage, both which can have very debilitating effects on health, wealth and social well being. Lung damage in particular can be hard to detect without doing…

Off the top of my head, influenza can cause permanent damage to the lungs, kidneys, heart, and brain (sorry, I'm lazy and not providing citations). I'm not saying this to downplay the effects of Covid/Omicron, but rather to make the point that long-term damage from "mild" infections is not new. What matters is how many people are affected. Omicron will undoubtedly ruin the lives of some people who recover from the in…

You are not wrong that influence can cause those, as any disease that causes a fever can cause multi organ failure and death. The likelihood of the common cold killing a person is however fairly low if the person is young and in otherwise good health.

The criteria I would use is if the medical community is recommending testing for damage after illness. I an pretty use the recommendation is not to test the lungs, kidneys, heart, and brain after an influenza infection for people with no other symptoms. I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me here.

I do know however that dive doctors recommend divers to test for lung damage after a confirmed covid infection, even with no symptoms after infection. There is no such recommendation for influenza, so I would hazard a guess that the risk for otherwise healthy divers after an influenza infection is less than of covid. I have yet see a recommendation for omicron, but for now I would be cautious until the data is in.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#903

Post by layer8 »

sbierwagen wrote: post #896
layer8 wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason to wear a mask is to prevent yourself from infecting others if/when you get infected again. One usually becomes infectious before the symptoms become obvious, i.e. before becoming aware of the new infection. Wearing a mask is mainly for the benefit of others, not for your own. And it’s a game of numbers. The larger the proportion of the population who wears a mask, the more the spread of the virus is…

This is true... if all indoor dining, bars and clubs are closed. If we're allowing people to eat indoors, by definition unmasked, then what's the point of wearing a N95 in a grocery store? The US is doing a million new cases a day. Wearing a mask in some situations but not others is not going to make much of a difference. But it is a very visible thing to have partisan political fights about, which seems to be most o…

> indoor dining, bars and clubs

Yeah, you shouldn’t go there either if you care about the issue.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#904

Post by honkycat »

BoysenberryPi wrote: post #507

I don't want to talk about vaccines anymore. Whatever study people have to cherry pick or whatever beliefs you may hold, whatever your stance is, most people have made the decision on whether or not to be vaccinated. What I wish we focused on instead, is the medical system as a whole. We've been hearing stories everyday about how hospitals are on the brink of collapse. Why, in 2 years of this pandemic, have we not de…

> Why, in 2 years of this pandemic, have we not devoted the resources to expanding bed capacity and staffing hospitals?

When have we ( assuming you are US, forgive me ) ever devoted resources to anything other than the military industrial complex and tax-cuts for the rich?

We don't HAVE resources. We have already scraped out every piece of public spending and public works program out of our budgets.

You expect us to be able to just scale back up after systematically disassembling our university[0] and medical systems over the past 30 years?

OK, we increase capacity. We save a few people, so what? We are running a BUSINESS HERE. We can't have any extra capacity, that would cut into profits! Plus we are still low after paying $600 per insulin shot last month.

Besides, haven't you heard? Everyone made a killing off the pandemic! It was great for business! BCBS posted 2 billion in profit last year! Don't worry your little head: Our healthcare and technology CEOs didn't have to sell their private jets or wait on buying that new yacht they have been eyeing.

This is what neoliberalism looks like. Every drop of blood drained out of public spending, so we can reroute it to whoever gives our senators the largest bribe.

0: Which creates professionals upon which US healthcare depends

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#905

Post by adamiscool8 »

s5300 wrote: post #805
afavour wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of regret even mentioning the effects of COVID in my original comment as I figured there would be a reply like yours and you're not wrong! But it wasn't the main point I was trying to make. My main point is that everyone just seems to have moved on from under 5s. We've adopted a stance of "vaxxed and done" for adults and older children and paid no attention to the vax trials for under 5s taking forever. It's b…

I also like the fact that nobody seems to be concerned with the possible effects this virus could have long-term on the developmental growth of a child under 5… I think I would be much more concerned about that than the symptoms of the initial infection itself. & for those who want to go “buhh we don’t know how duh vaccine will effect their developmental growth either” - I don’t have much to say to you other than I w…

You don't think the accumulation of lipid nanoparticles from what might be annual vaccinations could impact developmental growth in children? We have decades of research on Coronaviridae even if COVID-19 is a bit different, but we have basically nothing on LNP.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#906

Post by freewilly1040 »

edmundsauto wrote: post #372
nradov wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RSV is more dangerous than COVID-19 for most small children. We don't shut down society because of RSV. https://www.medscape.com/answers/971488-177692/what-is-the-p...

And we aren’t shutting society down because of the risk of C19 to small children either. The risk to children is part of that, but the risk to the adults who care for them is another reason. Additionally, staffing levels are impacted because the adults who have it. Also, generically, when we have a super spreadable disease, we want to minimize transmission. This is done as a precaution against mutation (the more infe…

> staffing levels are impacted because the adults who have it.

Specifically, staffing levels are impacted by the policy of people who have tested positive but are not sick.

>>> "The crisis from the Omicron peak is not generated by serious COVID illness in regions with highly vaxxed populations," Noble wrote in an email to SFGATE. "The crisis we are suffering in the Bay Area is largely driven by disruptive COVID policies that encourage asymptomatic testing and subsequent quarantines.

Via professor of emergency medicine at UCSF https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/COVID-San-Francisco-s...

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#907

Post by base698 »

BoysenberryPi wrote: post #507

I don't want to talk about vaccines anymore. Whatever study people have to cherry pick or whatever beliefs you may hold, whatever your stance is, most people have made the decision on whether or not to be vaccinated. What I wish we focused on instead, is the medical system as a whole. We've been hearing stories everyday about how hospitals are on the brink of collapse. Why, in 2 years of this pandemic, have we not de…

And $10 trillion dollars.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#908

Post by arrrg »

valachio wrote: post #576
gilbetron wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're inventing a past that didn't exist. Were this pandemic to strike in the 70s or 80s (or earlier), we would undoubtedly have given people little choice to be vaccinated, but we also probably wouldn't have forced people nearly as much. Today we are stuck with these people running around talking about their freedom, when one of the main reasons for government is public health.

I think if this pandemic struck in the 70s or 80s, it would have been shook off as a moderately more dangerous version of the flu, and there would have been no lockdowns or anything like that. Life would go on as normal until natural herd immunity is achieved.

That doesn’t seem plausible.

Non-medical interventions were also employed during the 1918/19 flu pandemic, also in the US. In fact, when things like school closures were initially discussed people were literally looking up old data from the 1918/19 flu pandemic to see what, if anything, we could learn from the non-medical interventions back then.

I doubt that we would have been able to create a vaccine (as quickly) in the 70s or 80s. Our knowledge about corona viruses wasn’t there yet and we also didn’t have plausible easy technological paths towards a vaccine.

So that would have sucked a lot. Really, a lot. Given that I think we would have necessarily accepted more deaths – but it would still all have been quite annoying since you really don’t want to run your hospitals at 110% all the time even if you are willing to accept all the deaths.

It’s just that now vaccines do provide a good solution with dramatically reduced deaths, hospitalizations, even (though much more limited) spread. Which makes it all the more frustrating that people aren’t taking advantage of that.

So I’m not so sure why you think that if we miraculously had an effective and safe vaccine for a novel pandemic corona virus in the 70s or 80s we there wouldn’t be mandates. Seems quite in line with US and overall Western tradition.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#909

Post by [deleted] »

analog31 wrote: post #672
afavour wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of regret even mentioning the effects of COVID in my original comment as I figured there would be a reply like yours and you're not wrong! But it wasn't the main point I was trying to make. My main point is that everyone just seems to have moved on from under 5s. We've adopted a stance of "vaxxed and done" for adults and older children and paid no attention to the vax trials for under 5s taking forever. It's b…

Going further, we've moved on from the un-vaccinated in general. My problem is that even though I live in a bubble with 100% vaccination rate among my relatives and friends (most of our kids are older), I can't quite make peace with just letting the un-vax'd kill one another off. And there seems to be no middle ground.

[deleted]

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#910

Post by aldebran »

misiti3780 wrote: post #901
toshk wrote: post #368

Of course people are done with it. Vaccinations were sold as the solution to the pandemic. Yet worldwide infections are going up at the same speed if not faster than before vaccinations. But no policy maker acknowledges this. They refer to the lowered death rate, or blame a new variant. But it means that policy that gave people more freedom because of their vaccination status are not having any significant effect on…

Totally, but that trust has been long gone in the US. 1/2 the population stopped paying attention to Dr. Fauci after he lied about masks (understandably). Then we were told that that funerals were bad, but outdoor protests were ok. Then it was racist to even consider the virus came from a lab leak. Then Fauci claimed that technically, he didn't fund gain of function research (in the most scripted,PR speak possible).…

What did Fauci lie about regarding masks? There were higher infection rates in other countries but Trump focused on China. That does sound racist given other comments he made.

Biden Blocking SA flights was dumb given SA alerted the world but wasn’t necessarily the source of Omicron.

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