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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#901

Post by wait_a_minute »

handoflixue wrote: post #830
nsxwolf wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people consider the freedom of movement without constantly having to show papers to be a right, even if it's not explicitly codified in some law or constitution. I could say I have a right to breathe air and someone would probably come around and tell me I'm wrong, but most people have some intuition for what a "natural" right is, and bristle when something encroaches on those.

I don't think anyone is stopping you from breathing air. Interstate travel is still open. I'm allowed to walk around my neighborhood. No one is requiring me to show "papers" for any of this. I know not everyone has the same set of restrictions on them, so I'm genuinely trying to understand if I'm missing something about how other areas are behaving. I know Australia is at the "papers, please" curfew stage, and that d…

Australia didn’t get there over night. It was bit by bit. Pseudo-intellectuals would have said it’s a “slippery slope” back when people urged caution though.

Maybe the slope into authoritarianism is actually slippery.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#902

Post by kodyo »

seoaeu wrote: post #840
ezekg wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How quickly we've gone from "comply to save just one life" to "laughing at their pathetic graves and funerals." Like... what the hell? Do we not see a problem here?

Why should I have sympathy for those who have displayed a such reckless disregard for the well-being of their fellow neighbors? The best I can muster is some pity for them falling victim to disinformation. So many of us endured personal sacrifice over the last 18 months to help prevent the spread of covid, and now these people refuse to take even the simplest steps?

The sacrifice flattened the curve. That’s all it was ever supposed to do. But virus is gonna virus.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#903

Post by SergeAx »

renaudg wrote: post #862
SergeAx wrote: post #856

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, getting vaccinated is not stops anyone from transmitting disease, it is obvious. Virus gets to breathing system of vaccinated people same as for unvaccinated, and replicates there for 4-6 days. Then they either have a vaccine breakthrough, or vaccine-boosted immune system kicks in and defeats the virus in next 2-3 days. All this time the vaccinated host is as dangerous for others as unvaccinated. I hope you didn'…

> All this time the vaccinated host is as dangerous for others as unvaccinated. This is categorically false, sorry : https://twitter.com/apsmunro/status/1429449468261322759

I really hope this will turn out to be true, but:

> Ct-values decreased throughout the first 3 days of illness.

Days of illness are those 3 days "when immune system kicks in and defeats the virus", as I wrote. When host is ill, it is obvious and things like masks and social distancing are being used. But not for those 4-6 days of asymptomatic virus replication, when most transmissions are taking part.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#904

Post by xfitm3 »

criticaltinker wrote: post #854
walterbell wrote: post #802

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The unvaccinated probably do spread COVID faster and with more frequency. No, it's the other way around. Transmission is correlated with viral load. In the unvaccinated, high viral load leads to early self-observable symptoms. The vaccines are designed to suppress symptoms, so a vaccinated person can be infected and transmitting, without knowing they should be isolating. That's why the CDC recommends testing of vac…

Up-voted because this is a complex dynamic that many people seem to be unaware of, or fall victim to over-simplification when discussing. The scientific literature supports the fact that vaccination reduces symptoms and reduces duration and intensity of viral shedding - but immunity acquired through natural infection also has the same effect. So many people talk about "vaccinated versus unvaccinated", but this dualis…

I cannot receive the vaccine due to a medical condition and I can't wait for group B to get the same first-class citizen privileges as group A. I've been sick, recovered, and have some form of resistance.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#905

Post by specto »

xyzzyz wrote: post #209
antattack wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Even if true, so what? It's their bodies. They should be allowed to choose, just like you are." Is this still true if unvaccinated takes a hospital bed away from someone else or increases insurance costs to everyone else due to more expensive care?

Replacing “unvaccinated” with “obese” here gives an argument for forcing obese people on diet against their will.

Yep, being obese definitely causes issues for others with weak immune systems just like covid.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#906

Post by argvargc »

acdha wrote: post #319
argvargc wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The facebook posts typically reference one of several organised groups of hundreds of working doctors, some of whom claim to have directly observed high levels of concerningly-serious adverse reaction, even among small sample groups (eg, small town doctors who vaccinated many in the town). If a doctor is recommending you don't take it based on their experience and expertise, it carries a bit more weight than "somethi…

> This is not something that can be resolved by bullying or mandates. It can only be resolved by open dialogue and debate between the two sides, which thus far, has been prevented. Your second claim is massively untrue: all of the information is public and actual medical doctors overwhelmingly support vaccination and bend over backwards trying to help patients understand it (note that most of the high profile objecto…

Presently, no one can post certain peer-reviewed science from well-known and respected medical journals on any social media account, or speak of them on YT, because of widespread censorship of certain topics.

It's not possible to have anything remotely resembling a "debate" in such a climate.

Mandates have not been effective. Nothing that's been done can be said to have been "effective". We are apparently in an even worse place now, even with vaccines, than we were last year.

In reality though, we aren't.

The pathology of the virus is well-understood, as are the mechanisms to defeat it. But we're not allowed to talk about it.

It'd all be over in weeks if we were - as we saw in India recently, in all provinces but the one that stuck with the dogma.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#907

Post by xiphias2 »

rafaelm wrote: post #778
s0rce wrote: post #762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Undocumented people have been able to get the vaccine in California without paying so you can get it and don't need to pay.

Can confirm, lots of people from my country have been traveling to Miami to get the shot. Some go for 10 days to get the Johnson shot (single dose), because they can't/don't want to spend a month for the two doses. According to what I've heard, you can just walk into any Walgreens/pharmacy to get it, without paying or getting an ID check. Not sure how legal that is though. I understand that those should be for tax-pa…

I traveled to Miami in May, went through a long line and didn't get the Pfizer shot as they were checking people :(

I wouldn't want to spend so much money flying there without a guarantee. Anyways, I will probably be able to get something (looking for a 3rd Pfizer shot), I just don't like to depend on getting lucky.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#908

Post by goostavos »

dfxm12 wrote: post #876
goostavos wrote: post #866

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why do you let the opinions of some out group determine your behavior? I'm not sure what you mean? I have no control over how another group chooses to discriminate. >is there someone you trust with a credentialed medical opinion you can talk to about this instead, like your family physician? There's this presumption that people who are making the 'wrong' choice are simply uninformed or haven't sought 'qualified' med…

The behavior of those in the former camp pushes me away from my medically hesitant "wait and see" position, into one of, frankly, staunch dismissal ... You said you were less likely to get the vaccine because of how people in an out group were behaving. That's what I mean.

Oh, gotcha.

The issue is that the behavior of this other group isn't benign. It comes with a very real "comply or else", which already affects my ability to participate in society due to a particular transient medical choice. It's a tough sell that medical decisions are best made under threats of harm (legal, livelihood, societal participation, etc..).

I think it's fairly natural when someone tries to coerce you into something to reject it on principle alone. There's big difference from "you should stop eating so much McDonalds because of downstream effects on the medical system" and "you WILL stop eating McDonalds or we will take away your autonomy to do so." I will not be forced into medical decisions by a mob threatening harm. If/when I get the vaccine, it will because my view of the risks/need ticked in favor of it (in theory anyways).

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#909

Post by myko »

seriousquestion wrote: post #344
thepasswordis wrote: post #200

People don’t want to take the vaccine because others are trying to force them to. They would say “it’s not FDA approved!” not as the core of their hesitancy, but because they were trying to be appeal to pro-vax peoples decision making framework. I don’t think we should be able to require them to. To many of you here: imagine the Trump admin trying to require you to take the vaccine in November of last year. Cities wo…

You don't even have to imagine. Kamala Harris: "But if Donald Trump tells us to take it, I’m not taking it." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dAjCeMuXR0 The same thing was broadly expressed on twitter at the time too, she was far from alone in that sentiment.

She is absolutely right. If trump touts a vaccine but the medical community does not, she wouldn't trust it - and neither should you.

You have to remember at the time trump was recommending hydroxychloroquine as a preventative and miracle treatment for COVID-19. Sadly some of his followers still believe it (and now are looking at ivermectin as well).

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#910

Post by criticaltinker »

criticaltinker wrote: post #554
president wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of your feelings, not because of science. For the unaware, there are multitudes of highly acclaimed scientists and academics around the world from top institutions including Nobel prize winners that are advising caution against the vaccine. You don't just get to choose which "science" you listen to. These voices are massively censored so the public doesn't really get to hear both sides of the argument. The…

Yes this is a great point. The primary concerns & warnings are generally around vaccine induced immune escape, which is a realistic consequence of indiscriminate compulsory mass vaccination [1][2][3][4][5][6]. That said, there is general consensus in the literature that the vaccines are mostly safe for adults in the short term. However for certain sub-populations (eg pediatrics and pregnant women) there isn't enough…

Lots of down-votes and no replies tells me this is striking some nerves - anyone care to articulate why you disagree with or do not support these statements?
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