Maybe Microsoft can hire him.
Richard M. Stallman resigns
901–910 of 1001 posts
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#902The most alarming thing about witch hunts like this, is that big social corporations have all the means to control which panic will spread or be shunned. And if Stallman's FSF colleagues endorsed the panic and pressured him into resignation instead of protecting him, it might mean that FSF has just lost it's independence from corporate power.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#903Maybe Microsoft can hire him?
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#904RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…
How is it we value free speech, but there are certain discussions you just cannot have, even in a rational and measured way, without risking making yourself completely unemployable. You should be able to have a questionable viewpoint in a discussion, without worrying about the lynch mob ending your career. The consequences here are out of line. You can be reprimanded to take your discussions to a non company venue, i…
Just as important as freedom of speech is freedom of association. If your speech is seen as extremely odious, other people have the right to cut ties with you. And if you're in a prominent officer position, the organization as a whole has a right to disassociate itself from you because of those views.
So is Stallman's speech in question here odious? At first glance, not really. But when you put it in context:
The entire brouhaha starts with a sexual predator whose actions are known to but ignored by associates because money (or equivalently, power). Stallman is defending an associate of his who is tainted by association with Epstein. In the kinder light, this defense is essentially pedantry (just rape, not sexual assault). In the harsher light, this defense is "there's nothing inherently wrong with the entire situation here."
In this situation, I think the harsher light is closer to RMS's intent. He has made statements in the past saying that he believes there is nothing inherently wrong with having sex with children (although he has now walked back those statements). In addition, he appears to have acquired a reputation as a sexual harasser among women at MIT over the past few decades.
With that context, it does look like Stallman shares a lot of attributes with "prominent people whose sexual harassment has been ignored because they're powerful people, and who is not sorry about it." And pushing him out of leadership positions because of those views is acceptable consequences in my opinion. More so because it appears to me that he doesn't appreciate how power differential may affect the ability of people to give consent, he is in a position of power, and he appears to desire consent that may be unwilling.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#905Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is it we value free speech, but there are certain discussions you just cannot have, even in a rational and measured way, without risking making yourself completely unemployable. You should be able to have a questionable viewpoint in a discussion, without worrying about the lynch mob ending your career. The consequences here are out of line. You can be reprimanded to take your discussions to a non company venue, i…
> You should be able to have a questionable viewpoint in a discussion, without worrying about the lynch mob ending your career. First, "lynch mob" is inappropriate and irrelevant. Given Stallman's statements, in the forum in which they were made, many reasonable employers would have fired him, with or without some "lynch mob." Second, Stallman didn't express his views in private conversation, but rather in a forum wh…
You are giving the mob far too much credit. It is just the fall of the dice that made them come after Stallman for what he said this time and not another. Had he said "Have we seen evidence that Minsky himself engaged in illegal activity?" it would still have been a crapshoot. The quotes are so amazingly out of context that if they were in the same mood, Vice and friends would still have quoted this as "Stallman says rape not bad".
Media are trash. Cancel culture steamrolls everything, there is no way to avoid being their target other than complete submission. You can word what you say as carefully as you like, but if they perceive that you're a good target, it won't matter one bit.
It's not about what is said, this is simply a war.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#906RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…
> his friend who ... is accused It's the accused that is the problem with this. He isn't defending the proven actions of a pervert, he is defending the memory of a dead friend, suggesting that his friend was incapable of the crime of which he is accused. If defending an accused friend is now itself punishable by excision from society, then the effect of an accusation alone becomes immediate isolation. The presumption…
There is absolutely no obligation to presume innocence in our personal opinions. We are all freely permitted to form our own opinions based on the facts of the situation.
There are good reasons that our legal systems favor the accused -- ones that I _fully_ support -- but it is an unreasonably high epistemic standard for us to operate under in our daily lives.
If I don't want to associate with someone because they're an asshole, I'm under no obligation to prove so beyond a reasonable doubt. My freedom of association is more fundamental.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#907RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…
this is a very very very dangerous viewpoint that you are expressing, and I very much hope that you are over simplifying. Because if you really think that somebody needs to be fired, for stating a point completely unrelated to their job, then that is a problem that we, as a society, need to address urgently. Everyone is allowed to believe anything they damn well please. They are even allowed to state it. There should…
> Because if you really think that somebody needs to be fired, for stating a point completely unrelated to their job, then that is a problem that we, as a society, need to address urgently.
The issue is not voicing an opinion in private -- it's voicing it on an institutional mailing list in his capacity as a member of that institution.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#908RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…
What he said, for posterity: > "The most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing," Stallman wrote in his post last Wednesday. "Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates. I’ve concluded from various examples of accusation inflation that it is absolutely wrong to use the term 'sexual assault' in a…
> belligerent assumption of bad faith
He does go on to explain his rationale. "Sexual assault" can apply to anything on a continuum from creepy hug to BTK. And so using the term obscures the specific accusation and escalates its severity.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#909RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…
It's worth mentioning that Minsky died in 2016, so this is not an attempt to influence a forthcoming trial, but to defend a friend's memory.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#910Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is it we value free speech, but there are certain discussions you just cannot have, even in a rational and measured way, without risking making yourself completely unemployable. You should be able to have a questionable viewpoint in a discussion, without worrying about the lynch mob ending your career. The consequences here are out of line. You can be reprimanded to take your discussions to a non company venue, i…
" How is it we value free speech, but there are certain discussions you just cannot have, even in a rational and measured way, without risking making yourself completely unemployable. You should be able to have a questionable viewpoint in a discussion, without worrying about the lynch mob ending your career. " I agree with this statement. Stallman has been a problematic person for a long time. I'm no fan of his. If a…
> If after a while the university had said, "Enough is enough, Richard, you need to shape up or get out." I would have understood that.
TBH I wouldn't expect that if they did for it to be public knowledge. In fact I'd assume that has happened.