Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#901

Post by samstave » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 5:36 AM UTC

geofft wrote: post #844

bko wrote: post #808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see it as a "what can you do for me". A lot of Amazon's interest were aligned with that of many New Yorkers. Both Amazon and most New Yorkers want to have a strong transportation system and a diverse economy that doesn't just rely on taxing bloated financial bonuses to pay for services. They also want New York to be an in-demand tech hub with a deep labor pool and be a place where people actually want to live…

If skyscraper-studded Manhattan is hostile to businesses, I am really curious what a city friendly to businesses looks like....

Graftopolis?

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#902

Post by mancerayder » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 5:38 AM UTC

lsllc wrote: post #710

cletus wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples: - Park Slope brownstone, $548/month: https://streeteasy.com/sale/1375411 - Park Slope condo, $1740/month: https://streeteasy.com/building/105-8-avenue-brooklyn/3 Note: if you look into this a lot of condos have deceptively low monthly taxes due to a tax scheme (now defunct) called J-51 (IIRC) where property taxes started at 0 and would go to normal levels over 20-30 years.

That's absolutely insane. So we get oligarchs and tyrants buying up property in NYC to launder their ill gotten gains and paying little to no property tax on it!

Oligarchs and tyrants buy condos in the sky more than brownstones someplace. And 3M isn't a huge amount for a three family home near public transportation, especially a home from the late 1800's that's attached to other homes and with thousands of dollars a year in upkeep. There's an even more important reason for taxes targeting condos more than the older buildings: rental buildings (like a 3 or 4 family brownstone) have renters, and higher taxes would mean higher rents.

All that said, if you build a brand new single or multi-family home someplace, anyplace, the taxes will be pretty high. It's all about the grandfathering of older asessments and a state cap on tax rate increases (20% a year I believe), which is allowed an adjustment if renovation is done (or a fresh assessment if it's new).

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#903

Post by codyb » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 5:41 AM UTC

wolco wrote: post #640

jpatokal wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people are quite happy to keeping buying cheap factory-farmed meat and dairy, despite vague awareness of the generally horrific conditions of the animals (and humans) producing it.

It is rarely labeled that way so the history of the animal doesn't come into play when purchasing. When people think animal cruelity they think beating your family dog vs the state of factory farming or organic farming.

To continue this thread I suppose...

I've been thinking a lot about trying to purchase pasture raised and sustainable meat products lately and part of that has been buying pasture raised eggs.

My last incredibly priced carton actually included a little slip inside with pictures of the hens in their pasture, and I believe even an offer to visit their farm.

Was really nice to go the other way. Instead of thinking about or ignoring the cruelty, to think about these happy hens.

But damn is it expensive!

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#904

Post by codyb » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 5:43 AM UTC

sammycdubs wrote: post #675

bko wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most new Yorkers supported the project even when told about the subsidies. It's a vocal minority that sank the project https://www.wsj.com/articles/majority-of-new-yorkers-support...

Most New Yorkers don't live in LIC and won't be directly impacted. If you asked me about a proposal in a borough I never go to I'd probably say "yeah sure no problem"!

That's silly. Most of the people working there weren't going to live in LIC. It's not like that was going to be a requirement to work at the Amazon campus.

Besides this sniffs of the "yea build shelters everywhere but my block" attitude.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#905

Post by null000 » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 5:43 AM UTC

jemfinch wrote: post #456

munificent wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah but they will get that tax break regardless I just don't understand this argument. It's like "Someone's gonna get fucked, so I'd prefer it be me." That tax break is real money . Money that your community will not be able to spend on education, infrastructure, police, parks, all the things that make a place worth living in. Why would you hand that over to a company that doesn't need it?

> That tax break is real money . Sure, but it's real money that your community doesn't get either way . You're living in a fantasy world if you believe that the choice was legitimately between "Tax money and 25,000 jobs" or "No tax money and 25,000 jobs." No, the choice has always been between "No tax money and 25,000 jobs" or "No tax money and no jobs." You're not getting the tax money either way. Either Amazon buil…

So if you assume government costs scale linearly per person (which is actually probably opimisic) and then you turn down a bunch of money a company would normally pay as they're bringing in dump trucks of people from out of state, that's a pretty good way to ensure under investment in things like infrastructure and other public needs at best, or the situation where you shove the tax burden on to existing (in this case lower-income on average) residents.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#906

Post by codyb » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 5:45 AM UTC

samstave wrote: post #897

codyb wrote: post #895

Good riddance. It irks me to no end that our system is set up to reward the largest and the wealthiest. NYC should have prepared a package for Amazon and said "this is what we'll guarantee in breaks to small business owners if you come here". I didn't even think it was a particularly bad deal all things considered, I just hate the idea. Meanwhile, half of NYC and the country is wondering what NYC will do without 25,0…

NYC has 38,500 police officers. I could give a shit about 25,000 potential AWS employees.

Exactly. I didn't understand what the big deal was from the get go.

In terms of impact on a regular residents life at least.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#907

Post by wolco » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 5:51 AM UTC

josephv wrote: post #700

robterrell wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OMG don't give basketball players this idea. Cities would totally write tax exemptions into law to land LeBron!

Haha, this is brilliant. Exempt NBA Star X from all state income tax if they play for the team - that seems completely believable. Obviously NBA rules relate to tampering would come into play, but it would be a compelling story for the 24 hour sports new cycle. I've read about athletes at least considering the income tax of a state in their decision, but I'm not sure it's ever been a deciding factor.

Tampering? Not if the law was written to say anyone making over 25 million playing professional basketball.

Getting reelected will be an issue.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#908

Post by rsj_hn » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 5:53 AM UTC

wnevets wrote: post #874

rsj_hn wrote: post #825

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to tell you what the right trade offs are between, say, living in Phoenix or Dallas or Charleston and living in NY or SF. But at some point people want to start families and buy a house and that starts to take precedence over being in a cool area. The only issue is jobs -- can they work remote, can they find a local employer, can they work for themselves? So there is a huge demand for higher paying jobs…

>So there is a huge demand for higher paying jobs in lower cost areas compared to the demand for higher paying jobs in higher cost areas NYC is the most populated and density populated city in the country, which is just another way of saying its the city with the highest demand. If most people rather work and live in Scottsdale than that would be the most populated and density populated city in the country.

By that logic, a city like Detroit, with 600K is 50 times more in demand than a city like Malibu, which only has 12K people.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#909

Post by jupp0r » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 5:57 AM UTC

doublescoop wrote: post #666

a13n wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Turns out that publicly shaking down cities across the US tends to draw out the opposition. Unless you're Elon, then it's celebrated.

I think you're misreading Musk's reputation outside of tech circles. If they're aware of him at all, he's more or less viewed as a Bond villain at this point.

I thought he was Tony Stark from Iron Man!

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#910

Post by wnevets » Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 6:10 AM UTC

rsj_hn wrote: post #908

wnevets wrote: post #874

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So there is a huge demand for higher paying jobs in lower cost areas compared to the demand for higher paying jobs in higher cost areas NYC is the most populated and density populated city in the country, which is just another way of saying its the city with the highest demand. If most people rather work and live in Scottsdale than that would be the most populated and density populated city in the country.

By that logic, a city like Detroit, with 600K is 50 times more in demand than a city like Malibu, which only has 12K people.

Why is that hard to believe? More people may say they want to Malibu than Detroit but until they do it doesn't matter. I would love to have a Tesla but dreams don't count as demand.