How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference? • Hacker News Board

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#91

Post by tiler » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 1:03 PM UTC

amyjess wrote: post #82

golemotron wrote: post #36

I'm surprised to see this ranking so high on HN. Sex-based difference is the biggest taboo of our time. The current educational and political system is organized toward exclusively presenting the view that gender is a cultural construct and there are no differences between men and women other than plumbing. Men and women, on average, differ significantly on career choice, likes, dislikes, and motivation. And, it has…

> gender is a cultural construct Trans people such as myself are proof that gender is not a social construct. In my experience, the nastiest transphobes are the ones who believe gender is a social construct. They're called TERFs. They can't wrap their minds around the fact that we prove their pet theories wrong, so they stalk, harass, and doxx us.

Perhaps you could explain how the existence of trans. people is proof that gender is not a social construct?

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#92

Post by dataker » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 1:05 PM UTC

Scientifically studying sex should be a top priority for our society.

In both ends of the spectrum, but particularly in radical feminists, theories are influenced by ideologies and politics, hurting society at large.

Recently, a feminist(president of a feminist university group) told me males were incomplete females(XY would be an incomplete version of XX) and, for that reason, they should have their instincts and behaviour suppressed.

Edit: As some have mentioned, the girl referred to the SCUM manifest http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#93

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 1:07 PM UTC

tiler wrote: post #91

amyjess wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> gender is a cultural construct Trans people such as myself are proof that gender is not a social construct. In my experience, the nastiest transphobes are the ones who believe gender is a social construct. They're called TERFs. They can't wrap their minds around the fact that we prove their pet theories wrong, so they stalk, harass, and doxx us.

Perhaps you could explain how the existence of trans. people is proof that gender is not a social construct?

[deleted]

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#94

Post by paperrr1 » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 1:08 PM UTC

benihana wrote: post #51

unimpressive wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh it's not really for them . See, if you don't state the obvious that such people are disgusting little twerps it gets brought up as an example of the things evil tech industry people really think but won't say.

So you're basically putting on a show for people who are spectacularly wrong about the obvious and loud about it? Don't feed the trolls. That includes the people who think anyone who disagrees with them is a . ist, . phobic troll.

What is wrong about what he said? Do you not believe in evolution?

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#95

Post by paperrr1 » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 1:10 PM UTC

golemotron wrote: post #36

I'm surprised to see this ranking so high on HN. Sex-based difference is the biggest taboo of our time. The current educational and political system is organized toward exclusively presenting the view that gender is a cultural construct and there are no differences between men and women other than plumbing. Men and women, on average, differ significantly on career choice, likes, dislikes, and motivation. And, it has…

Someones 1 + 1 really does equal 2.

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#96

Post by paperrr1 » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 1:10 PM UTC

tiler wrote: post #91

amyjess wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> gender is a cultural construct Trans people such as myself are proof that gender is not a social construct. In my experience, the nastiest transphobes are the ones who believe gender is a social construct. They're called TERFs. They can't wrap their minds around the fact that we prove their pet theories wrong, so they stalk, harass, and doxx us.

Perhaps you could explain how the existence of trans. people is proof that gender is not a social construct?

remember they're "born that way".

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#97

Post by danmaz74 » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 1:11 PM UTC

The first paragraph in the article sounded wrong. It says that "the brain of a woman is composed of two different types of cells. One type has an X chromosome inherited from her mother, and another type of cell has an X chromosome from her father", but I remembered that all cells in a woman have both X chromosomes.

It turns out the correct paragraph should say: "One type has an ACTIVE X chromosome inherited from her mother, and another type of cell has an ACTIVE X chromosome from her father".

Here the excerpt from the relevant linked article, which explains it better:

> A few weeks after conception, one of the two X chromosomes in each cell of a female's body is randomly deactivated. As each of these cells in the developing fetus multiplies, its descendant cells all have the same X chromosome activated. This leads to a patch of cells that all have the same active X chromosome (say, the X from the mother). A different fetal cell may have randomly deactivated the mother's X chromosome, and so all of its descendant cells each have the X chromosome from the father.

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#98

Post by bryanlarsen » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 1:12 PM UTC

golemotron wrote: post #36

I'm surprised to see this ranking so high on HN. Sex-based difference is the biggest taboo of our time. The current educational and political system is organized toward exclusively presenting the view that gender is a cultural construct and there are no differences between men and women other than plumbing. Men and women, on average, differ significantly on career choice, likes, dislikes, and motivation. And, it has…

A large part of the problem is the failure to distinguish between the aggregate and the individual. For the sake of argument let's say that the population of individuals who would make good engineers is 60% male and 40% female. From an aggregate level that's a huge difference. Once you gather enough of people that statistical inferences can be made, the difference becomes obvious. In a classroom, for instance. But at an individual level that difference becomes insignificant. If you grab one boy and one girl at random, there's a very significant chance the girl is better at engineering than the boy. At the individual level, there are much better predictors of whether a person is good at engineering than their sex. Five minutes of conversation wouldn't be authoritative but it would be much more predictive than the individual's sex.

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#99

Post by Kelly2 » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 1:13 PM UTC

golemotron wrote: post #36

I'm surprised to see this ranking so high on HN. Sex-based difference is the biggest taboo of our time. The current educational and political system is organized toward exclusively presenting the view that gender is a cultural construct and there are no differences between men and women other than plumbing. Men and women, on average, differ significantly on career choice, likes, dislikes, and motivation. And, it has…

> I'm surprised to see this ranking so high on HN. Sex-based difference is the biggest taboo of our time.

Indeed, it's such a taboo that it's brought up here every time the subject is discussed here.

Unless you would take all your information from radicalfeminist.com, I never saw a reputable news channel denying there would be differences between sexes. Actually, I see this meme of "Gender differences are taboo!" MUCH more often than I see the actual behavior so decried in actual action.

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#100

Post by kaitai » Tue, Jul 07, 2015, 1:14 PM UTC

carapat_virulat wrote: post #75

golemotron wrote: post #36

I'm surprised to see this ranking so high on HN. Sex-based difference is the biggest taboo of our time. The current educational and political system is organized toward exclusively presenting the view that gender is a cultural construct and there are no differences between men and women other than plumbing. Men and women, on average, differ significantly on career choice, likes, dislikes, and motivation. And, it has…

Is the percentage of women in STEM low in all STEM degrees in the US? I'm Spanish and math and chemistry usually have a 50/50 or >50% of women here. Not sure if those are considered STEM at all in the US.

Our social constructions heavily influence how "Men and women, on average, differ significantly on career choice, likes, dislikes, and motivation," (from grandparent comment). In Spain and Italy and Portugal, math occupies a very different social role than it does in the US. In particular, it's not seen as so thoroughly unfeminine. This is one reason there are so many fabulous women mathematicians from Spain, Italy, and Portugal, and why they stay there rather than moving to the US for academic positions.

I think the GP has a point but sort of a weak understanding of what people are selecting for. We change the characteristics we find most important about many jobs to make them fit the gender roles our society has. It's not the act/job alone, it's the role in society. In Malaysia being a programmer is a job that doesn't require mythical powers, so it's close to 50-50 in gender split. In Italy being a mathematician does not stereotypically require brilliance, Asperger's, or general social ineptitude, so it's ok for women. Being a schoolteacher in the US has shifted from a prestigious starter job for educated men who could keep discipline, "a stepping-stone on [the] way to careers in the church or the law" (colonial times, 1800s) to a job for nurturing women who love children (today) [1]. And we can look at computer science: women went from being the original "computers" and programmers to being... not suited to it (?). Right, not interested. For innate reasons.

[1] http://www.pbs.org/onlyateacher/timeline.html