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This Industry is Fucked

blog.jessfraz.com

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Re: This Industry is Fucked

#91

Post by vezzy-fnord »

rodgerd wrote: post #74
obstacle1 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're being a bit overbroad in speaking for all women (that's the kind of thinking which leads to sexism in the first place). Frankly the 'consequences' here are receiving a bunch of unsavoury PMs. i.e., there are no real-world, physical, dangerous consequences. So the fear of contributing to a community because of it is unfounded. It's just a side-effect of Internet culture, and it happens to men too.

> there are no real-world, physical, dangerous consequences Tell that to Val Adams or other women who have been sexually assaulted at tech conferences. > and it happens to men too My mistake. I thought you were serious, not that redpill was leaking.

You're setting the bar for redpiller remarkably low, I must note.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#92

Post by [deleted] »

mholt wrote: post #54
Kapura wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Not common?" Really? This SEEMS pretty common. And while I believe it's true that not every woman in tech gets harassed, it's obvious that a much higher percentage of them get this sort of shit than men. And it only gets worse as they get more visible for the good work that they're doing. You say you're tired of this shit. How do you think these women feel? It's not you writing the tweets and emails, but if you beco…

> if you say "that's just how it is some times" you are a part of the problem. Come again? How is astrocyte part of Jessie's problem? People are responsible for their own choices, not the choices of others. > Never say it's OK. Although I agree, I don't think astrocyte is saying that harassment is OK. (I assume that's what you're referring to.)

[deleted]

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#94

Post by aikah »

aaa667 wrote: post #9

And people ask why more women don't speak at conferences or at meetup groups or contribute to open source software, or even publish blogs. It's because we are SCARED. We know what the consequences of making our voices heard can be, and it's terrifying, and we question whether it is worth the risk.

> why more women don't speak at conferences or at meetup groups or contribute to open source software

Whatever, Plenty of women do all the things you said without issues.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#95

Post by astrocyte »

yoshuaw wrote: post #72
mholt wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you say "that's just how it is some times" you are a part of the problem. Come again? How is astrocyte part of Jessie's problem? People are responsible for their own choices, not the choices of others. > Never say it's OK. Although I agree, I don't think astrocyte is saying that harassment is OK. (I assume that's what you're referring to.)

To put it bluntly Astrocyte is telling Jessie to shut up. They aren't saying harassment is OK, it just shouldn't be talked about.

Agreed mholt. I never said this harassment was ok. It is not ok and threats can be followed up by police if she really wanted to get even... I am saying that it looks like modern day internet trolling to me. Sign on Xbox live or a modern gaming network .. People are threatening and calling each other vile names all day long. No one cares if you're a female/male or what your ethnicity is. However, if you provide that info, that gives them more ammo to try to mind fuck you ... The aim is to frazzle you w/ extreme comments. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=For+the+lulz This has nothing to do w/ the tech industry. I only voiced that I am getting tired of people, especially now-a-days, going on a bash party against men every time some woman goes through something. The majority of men, regardless of industry, still want to respect and protect women. So, here we are.. A woman gets trolled on the internet and, because she feels she's the center of the world, it's ok for her to incorrectly cast this against males in the tech industry? The majority who are running to her defense and ready to fight each other to the death to prove they are worthy of women? .. Come on, give me a break.. That's what i'm trying to say. And there's deeper issues to address here really. Were "equals" but the gender defending still isn't. Men are still running to the rescue of women at the slightest peep of wrongdoing.. The reverse isn't true.. So, I stated in extended commentary : Contrary to what is being portrayed, men still are stepping all over each other to defend women.

The rampant retraction of the upvotes my initial post is seeing just goes to show how men are willing to stab each other in the throat even when the truth is mentioned just to show a woman that they support them. Those same base tendencies are what steered a bunch of trolls to target Jessie. Same root.. Different leaf.

unbelievable .. Yet another showing though that you get the society/industry you deserve.

\/ To the link below.. keep up the shallow fight.. If you're not comfortable digging into the dirty details of the root, you're just playing whack-a-mole .. Feels good but nothing is achieved and you're likely being manipulated towards some further end-goal that is more harmful (for us all).

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#96

Post by Kapura »

astrocyte wrote: post #53
Kapura wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Not common?" Really? This SEEMS pretty common. And while I believe it's true that not every woman in tech gets harassed, it's obvious that a much higher percentage of them get this sort of shit than men. And it only gets worse as they get more visible for the good work that they're doing. You say you're tired of this shit. How do you think these women feel? It's not you writing the tweets and emails, but if you beco…

This isn't pretty common nor are any of the off the wall comments and threats she's getting serious. It's called trolling. Have you been on the internet in the last decade? If you're dumb enough to let someone get under your skin, they will and will do so even more. I'm a minority. Do you know the kind of shit I've had to deal w/ in tech. Note the 'deal with'. Were supposedly in a society where women are demanding to…

I have been on webforums since I was a wee lad and I've spent much of that time as a dyed in the wool troll. I "get" trolling. I understand the psychology that drives people to troll. I've been trolled myself. But there is a difference between calling somebody 'and idoit' and the sorts of harassment that is still all too common today.

Don't think I don't understand how it happens. I went to /v/ at the height of gamergate. I've seen doxxings before too. But as I've become an adult it has become a deeply disturbing part of a culture I once cherished as my own.

But if nobody speaks up, if nobody is there to raise the counterpoint and make a frustrated social outcast think about what he's doing, change will come too slowly for me to be fine just sitting by and letting it happen.

I don't want to diminish what you've had to deal with either. I don't think it's somehow more OK. But I don't think that anybody should have to deal with bullshit based on their cultural history or who they are, regardless of how it's presented. If you had written that post about he shit you've had to deal with being black in a primarily white field, I would still be here, as disgusted and as eager to see a change.

Is this a problem which applies exclusively to the tech industry? No. But I refuse to accept that it's just part of living in the internet age. I truly believe that if we can make people understand just how not-ok this sort of thing is, we have a shot at correcting these sorts of behaviours for the next digital generation.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#97

Post by slater »

astrocyte wrote: post #68
astrocyte wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't pretty common nor are any of the off the wall comments and threats she's getting serious. It's called trolling. Have you been on the internet in the last decade? If you're dumb enough to let someone get under your skin, they will and will do so even more. I'm a minority. Do you know the kind of shit I've had to deal w/ in tech. Note the 'deal with'. Were supposedly in a society where women are demanding to…

lol @ all the downvotes I'm getting for this and the swift retracing of upvotes of my initial thread due this extended commentary. I would delete this but i'm going to let it stay... Just goes to show you the depth of people's view on such issues. You want to go on and on about surface issues and foolishness that has nothing to do w/ the root. Yet, the minute someone brings up something real.. Oh no !! That's too muc…

Hahaha yeah, couldn't be that people are downvoting you for legitimate reasons, no sirree! Can only be white-knighting!

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#98

Post by bsder »

alaroldai wrote: post #80

Every time I see posts like this, I see people commenting on it with varying statement to the effect of "that's a shame, but most people in tech aren't like that", or "I'm so tired of seeing posts like this, quit making a fuss." And that makes me so angry. Sure, maybe not everyone in the industry is an arsehole. But enough people are, and those people are vocal enough, that a significant number of people feel disgust…

> Every time I see posts like this, I see people commenting on it with varying statement to the effect of "that's a shame, but most people in tech aren't like that", or "I'm so tired of seeing posts like this, quit making a fuss."

I'm tired of people whining in a blog post instead of calling the police.

Death threats and violence threats like this are unacceptable. CALL THE POLICE. After a couple of high-profile cases put these kinds of assholes in jail it will stop.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#99

Post by TTPrograms »

alaroldai wrote: post #80

Every time I see posts like this, I see people commenting on it with varying statement to the effect of "that's a shame, but most people in tech aren't like that", or "I'm so tired of seeing posts like this, quit making a fuss." And that makes me so angry. Sure, maybe not everyone in the industry is an arsehole. But enough people are, and those people are vocal enough, that a significant number of people feel disgust…

>That should be enough to tell you that even if the majority are lovely people, the industry as a whole still has a problem.

Is that really the case, though? If there's a violent criminal in a town, does the town as a whole have problem? Is the whole town to blame for the acts of that individual?

We should do what we can to stop this sort of abuse and make things better, but why do we have to spend so much time allocating blame to everyone in same field of work?

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#100

Post by rodgerd »

thirdtruck wrote: post #17
deelowe wrote: post #14

This is terrible. Are scenarios like this really common? I work with several women in the office, but have not heard of them dealing with such harassment. Is our situation unique? Either way, I hope this changes soon. There's no reason for acting like that.

You probably haven't heard it from them because complaining about such is so often labeled as "whining" and met with replies of "get a thicker skin." Even if you, specifically, are a genuinely sympathetic ear, they've likely been burned too often to open up yet again.

> You probably haven't heard it from them because complaining about such is so often labeled as "whining" and met with replies of "get a thicker skin."

One need only look here, where many of the responses could be retitled "Talking points from gamergate" or "redpill leakage".

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