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Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

harvardlawreview.org

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Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#91

Post by tux1968 »

Here in Vancouver we have a neighborhood where heavy drug users congregate. There is a heavy foot-patrol police presence, but arresting everyone using drugs is seen as an unworkable solution.

The police have taken to videotaping people who are heavily drugged and out of it. For instance, someone laying stoned in an alley with a needle hanging out of his arm. Of course medical services are summoned too.

The police then make the effort to track these people down to find them at a time when they are not intoxicated and show them the video of themselves... trying to wake them up to the truth and consequences of their addiction.

I don't know how effective this effort is, but I appreciate the police acting like decent human beings rather than bully thugs.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#92

Post by thornebrandt »

happyscrappy wrote: post #54
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine if there was video of Michael Brown going for the officers gun, would they still riot? That's what causes the problem. Police apologists imagine circumstances that justify their abuse, and are absolutely certain that's what actually happened. If there was a video, I wouldn't imagine. I'd watch and see what happened.

>If there was a video, I wouldn't imagine. I'd watch and see what happened. Well you saw the video of him robbing the store and assaulting the clerk moments earlier but that doesn't bother you? Edit since I can't reply: At least you didn't say "Police murder innocent black child" so that is a start. His actions moments before make the cops story more likely to be true.

A crime is something that someone does, it does not define who they are. A robbery doesn't make someone's life 'not matter'. It is not a capital offense. Neither is jaywalking, or being stoned. I think it's interesting that the narrative that the police presented about Michael Brown grabbing a gun is nearly identical to the South Carolina narrative presented about Walter Scott. However, The Ferguson police didn't make the same mistake as the South Carolina police. They made sure there weren't any leaked videos of the event, which in the case of Walter Scott, showed the cop placing a taser on a dead body. Remember how many hours Michael Brown was left to rot the sun? Remember how many months it took for the grand jury to even begin? Despite all the coaching that he no doubt received, Wilson's own narrative revealed itself: "He was like a demon."

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#93

Post by beat »

bdcravens wrote: post #77
beat wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a taxi driver is actually more dangerous than being a police officer. http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-dangerous-jobs/

Problem: Larger cities have taxis; many smaller communities do not. Every town have police. For your example to be fair, you'd have to restrict the statistics to only cities that have both police and taxis.

Do you think it would really move the needle that much? And for that matter, there are numerous other jobs more dangerous than being a police officer.

The point being that being a police officer isn't as dangerous as many other professions that aren't considered dangerous.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#94

Post by Jtsummers »

Inception wrote: post #43
jmnicolas wrote: post #2

Judging from the outside, US law enforcement has a "no accountability" problem, not a warrior one.

IMO, the warrior problem leads to the no accountability problem you speak of. If you program officers to think and act a certain way, then you can't really punish them when they act on their training.

They feed on each other. No accountability means they can be bad actors. Being bad actors encourages them to lobby (directly or through spokesmen in political office or media) for a reduction of accountability.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#95

Post by sgnelson »

hga wrote: post #60
sgnelson wrote: post #53

This is yet one more of the hidden costs of the Afghan and Iraq wars. You have a large population of soldiers, many who come back home after their tours of duty, where they were in effect an occupying force. And then they get a job in law enforcement. They are used too a certain way of doing things in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they bring that culture home with them. Even for those who didn't serve, as the article not…

Sorry, but this trend seems to have started with changes in the War on Drugs in the '70s, and the popularization of SWAT teams. It was certainly very strong before 9/11.

Sure, it started (slowly I would add) with the War on Drugs, but I do very much believe it escalated with 9/11, GWoT.

If nothing else, look at where all the gear that the police use is coming from? It's surplus from the wars [0].

[0]http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/09/us/war-gear-flows-to-polic...

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#96

Post by 3pt14159 »

Crito wrote: post #45
3pt14159 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

De-escalation is more effective than the slight tactical advantage.

Has it really come to vilifying a haircut ? The haircut is not to blame for anything here, it is all the people who may happen to wear it. Short hair is pragmatic, but more importantly, it is a personal preference. Nobody should be criticized for wearing short hair. Doing that makes you no better than people who talk about "long-haired hippies" disparagingly.

It isn't just the haircut on its own. If there wasn't a history of this:

http://www.forgetthebox.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Ameri...

Like say the police looked more like this:

http://cdn.caughtoffside.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Swed...

Then haircut wouldn't matter. But I have yet to meet an American cop that didn't have a "military approved" haircut.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#97

Post by beat »

vollmond wrote: post #57
sgnelson wrote: post #53

This is yet one more of the hidden costs of the Afghan and Iraq wars. You have a large population of soldiers, many who come back home after their tours of duty, where they were in effect an occupying force. And then they get a job in law enforcement. They are used too a certain way of doing things in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they bring that culture home with them. Even for those who didn't serve, as the article not…

The other part is the excessive hero worship, also driven by the War on Terror. The "support the troops" conversation stopper has extended to law enforcement and any other public-facing service job, to the point where it's impossible to have a civil debate about the military, police, teachers, or anyone, without offending someone just for bringing up the topic.

It doesn't extend to all public-facing government service jobs.

A friend of mine is a social worker with the county, dealing with people's aid - food stamps, welfare, etc. He has to deny people benefits multiple times every day. This morning, one of his co-workers denied food stamps to someone. That person went outside, got a rock, came back in, and hit the social worker in the head with it, sending her to the hospital.

Won't be seeing "Support our social workers!" stickers at the Wal-Mart anytime soon.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#98

Post by NoGravitas »

bdcravens wrote: post #24
joesmo wrote: post #9

It doesn't matter what attitudes change, the community relationship between police and citizens will not be repaired till at least my generation is dead (mid 30s) but more likely till at least three current generation of young people is dead. And that only if dramatic changes happen now. Otherwise things will continue to degrade and the police will continue to arrest and kill innocent people for committing crimes tha…

> The irony is, of course, that being a police officer is not even a very dangerous job. http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/10/us/mississippi-police-officers... Routine traffic stop. Pretty sure I've never heard of a developer being murdered during a pull request. > That leads me to conclude they're just a bunch of cowards with an inferiority complex out to hurt people to make themselves feel better. I'm sure cops exist who…

"Police officer" is in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in the US...but only barely. It's number 10 after fishing, logging, aircraft pilots and flight engineers, farmers and ranchers, mining, roofing, trash collection, truck driving, and stuntmen. (Source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-10-most-dangerous-jobs.ht...). Remember to thank your garbageman.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#100

Post by beat »

sgnelson wrote: post #53

This is yet one more of the hidden costs of the Afghan and Iraq wars. You have a large population of soldiers, many who come back home after their tours of duty, where they were in effect an occupying force. And then they get a job in law enforcement. They are used too a certain way of doing things in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they bring that culture home with them. Even for those who didn't serve, as the article not…

Another effect here is the paramilitarization of police equipment. Surplus equipment - armored vehicles, assault rifles, body armor, etc - is given away to police forces, leftovers from our overseas wars. This is why you see police in masks and camo that make no sense in an urban environment.

Clothes help define our relationship to others. How much does it change the attitude of a policeman to be wearing body armor and riot gear rather than shirt sleeves?

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