“Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things • Hacker News Board

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#91

Post by littletimmy » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 1:09 PM UTC

marktangotango wrote: post #86

littletimmy wrote: post #49

As a non-American, this was one of the biggest culture shocks I faced. On the surface, relationships in the US seem very transactional (not making the judgment that they are really transactional). For example, in the US a son would thank his parents for paying his college tuition. In my culture, this would be insulting because it would suggest being distant from family, in the sense that the son ought to believe his…

>> In my culture, this would be insulting because it would suggest being distant from family, in the sense that the son ought to believe his parents wealth is his also, and later willingly contribute his earnings when his parents need anything. It is a difference in the degree to which individualism is the norm. This is very interesting, and brings to mind something I've been struggling with recently (I'm USA-ian by…

Hah, you're welcome. This is really interesting because it raises the question: what role does affluence have to play in all of this?

In the case of my country, people usually aren't rich enough to save for retirement, nor are starting salaries high enough for young adults to stake out on their own. So parents help their kids right up to the point they can no longer work, and then kids take over to provide for the family.

In case of you being affluent (as in with a completely well-funded retirement), I can totally see why you'd want your kids to not see your wealth as theirs. It might ruin their incentives to be productive citizens.

So, does affluence naturally lead to a weakening of strong family ties? Dunno.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#92

Post by mfenniak » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 1:16 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #83

chrisBob wrote: post #78

In the military you will often hear "Don't thank me. The government thanks me twice a month." So there are parts of american culture where these pleasantries are less common.

Twice a month? I assume that's the paycheck, but seems like a weird schedule.

Semi-monthly paydays for people on salary are pretty common. I have, in fact, never worked at a job that doesn't pay according to that schedule (in Canada).

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#93

Post by kalari » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 1:22 PM UTC

India is a more hierarchical society in general, and one doesn't feel the need to thank the servile class for services rendered. Outside family and close circle of friends, a "thank you" can lubricate social interactions.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#94

Post by jmadsen » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 1:23 PM UTC

glandium wrote: post #75

jmadsen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I may extend my own post for a moment, this is a common problem of trying to translate words & phrases directly. For example, most people know that "Arigato" is Japanese for "Thank you". Except that's really wrong. Arigato is inappropriate in most cases, and "Sumasen" or variations should be used. But if you tried to translate them via the dictionary, you'd be quite confused as arigato comes from "thank" and su(mi…

Sumasen is likely regional. I've never heard it said, but it has the same root as sumimasen. In spoken "standard" japanese, you'll hear "sumimasen" or "suimasen", which is a common deformation because it's easier to pronounce. And indeed, its root is "to finish something" (済む), while its meaning is large, including "Sorry" and "Thank you" in english. Arigatou, literally, means "difficult to be/have" (有り難う (arigatou)…

"Sumasen is likely regional"

Apparently it is very "親父" and after 13 years my wife informs me I should switch to sumimasen :-)

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#95

Post by tcfunk » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 1:25 PM UTC

Something I haven't seen anyone bring up is the way that "thank you" or "sorry" are delivered.

I'm not familiar enough with other languages to know if they have similar variances in speech, but in english you can very much change the meaning of your message with the tone of your voice or your rate of speech.

Nearly any phrase can come off as condescending given the right delivery.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#96

Post by haphazardeous » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 1:26 PM UTC

chatwinra wrote: post #70

As an English speaker, I agree with others above that this article misses a huge point about our language. Yes we use thank you a lot, even for some things people may consider 'trite'. I'm from the UK so I use it a HELL of a lot. But I want to call out 2 points based on this: 1. As mentioned above, just thanking someone can turn their day around, and most times I feel rude if I do not say it (that is my cultural upbr…

Are you being slightly passive-aggressive? That's what I understand if I see "Thanks" instead of "Many thanks!"

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#97

Post by ska » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 1:29 PM UTC

marktangotango wrote: post #86

littletimmy wrote: post #49

As a non-American, this was one of the biggest culture shocks I faced. On the surface, relationships in the US seem very transactional (not making the judgment that they are really transactional). For example, in the US a son would thank his parents for paying his college tuition. In my culture, this would be insulting because it would suggest being distant from family, in the sense that the son ought to believe his…

>> In my culture, this would be insulting because it would suggest being distant from family, in the sense that the son ought to believe his parents wealth is his also, and later willingly contribute his earnings when his parents need anything. It is a difference in the degree to which individualism is the norm. This is very interesting, and brings to mind something I've been struggling with recently (I'm USA-ian by…

These views both have value, and both can be overplayed.

Hopefully you can also instill in your children an understanding that there is always some luck involved also, and help them avoid that pernicious failure to understand that because someone is not successful does not mean you can conclude they just have not worked hard enough.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#98

Post by billjings » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 1:30 PM UTC

klodolph wrote: post #72

littletimmy wrote: post #49

As a non-American, this was one of the biggest culture shocks I faced. On the surface, relationships in the US seem very transactional (not making the judgment that they are really transactional). For example, in the US a son would thank his parents for paying his college tuition. In my culture, this would be insulting because it would suggest being distant from family, in the sense that the son ought to believe his…

You may be reading a lot of value into this distinction. To me, as an American, equality in a peer relationship is important but bookkeeping and debt is destructive. The 50:50 split is just an ongoing division of labor, it is explicitly NOT debt because it never accumulates. Any "thank you" is an acknowledgment of gratitude or merely a polite exit to a conversation one doesn't want to continue. The debt that children…

Upthread someone mentions Graeber's _Debt_ book. You might find it interesting. It has a whole discussion on exactly these set of phrases. They were not always with us, and it's interesting to see when and why they came into common usage. In a large part it was out of the need to have economic transactions with strangers, and the need to not be tied up so tightly with our families.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#99

Post by joshyeager » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 1:36 PM UTC

haphazardeous wrote: post #96

chatwinra wrote: post #70

As an English speaker, I agree with others above that this article misses a huge point about our language. Yes we use thank you a lot, even for some things people may consider 'trite'. I'm from the UK so I use it a HELL of a lot. But I want to call out 2 points based on this: 1. As mentioned above, just thanking someone can turn their day around, and most times I feel rude if I do not say it (that is my cultural upbr…

Are you being slightly passive-aggressive? That's what I understand if I see "Thanks" instead of "Many thanks!"

You see "Thanks" as passive-aggressive? To me it reads as a very straightforward statement that communicates a moderate level of real gratitude.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#100

Post by rayiner » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 2:01 PM UTC

littletimmy wrote: post #49

As a non-American, this was one of the biggest culture shocks I faced. On the surface, relationships in the US seem very transactional (not making the judgment that they are really transactional). For example, in the US a son would thank his parents for paying his college tuition. In my culture, this would be insulting because it would suggest being distant from family, in the sense that the son ought to believe his…

My wife is American and I'm Bangladeshi, and we definitely see the differences you're talking about in our relationships with our families. Especially because we have crazy work/commute schedules and also a toddler, so we end up leaning heavily on our mothers for childcare.

I don't think I agree with your conclusion about "closer family ties." My mother in law is definitely very transactional, while my mother isn't, but my mother will also build up resentment when we exceed her unstated boundaries that will manifest into a fight months later.

Obviously a lot of that is just the particular personalities involved, but I would not be surprised if there was a general tendency for Americans to negotiate more up-front to avoid conflict later.

I think the cultural difference comes particularly to a head in the Sheryl Sandberg example. Let's face it--the typical Indian/Bangladeshi solution to negotiating chores 50:50 with your spouse is for the woman to do much more of the domestic work and sacrifice her career for her husband's. That's common everywhere, of course, but I think it's a particularly difficult problem to solve if you look down on calculating inter-spousal debt.