Live data from Hacker News

The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

nytimes.com

91–100 of 135 posts

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#93
One of the big crimes of these administrators is that it's so hard to get accurate numbers when trying to have this debate. Has the funding per capita gone down proportionally to the tuition increase? Is the increase in administration and facilities proportional to the increase in enrollment?

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#94
post #21

I think a more interesting question is, how has the ROI of college changed over the past 40 years? The cost has gone up much faster than inflation. The number of people going to college has also risen dramatically. This means there are a lot more college educated peers competing with you in the workplace. This means that the college degree is not as rare, and thus has lower scarcity value. Finally, I think it's quite…

One criticism I have of education systems is that they structurally encourage only superficially studying content. Let's take my compilers class as an example. I go to a 75 minute lecture 2 times a week and I do about 4 hours of homework a week. I do this over 18 weeks. That's only roughly 120 hours of study over the course of a semester. That's only as many hours as most full time employees work every 3 weeks! And t…

[deleted]

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The extra features are all based on how US students choose a school. Here undergrads go to the school with the beautiful student union, the gym with a juice bar and climbing wall, and want to live in a room near the nicest 24 hour dining hall with made to order stir fry and sandwiches. Having granite countertops in the dorm room also helps. This is just how the select the specific university though. The target group…

Which one? PKU? Qinghua? Shanghai Jiaotong? It is not such an easy choice anymore, and the universities in Beijing have poor facilities compared to Shanghai, making it difficult for them to attract shanghainese to come here to Beijing to study. Even chinese students these days want heated and air conditioned dormitories, a shower in their dorm (at least on their floor! Definitely not in a separate building), and clea…

I like how you're insinuating that current Chinese students are acting entitled by wanting heating and air conditioning in their dorms. Whereas in Canada/US, heating/air conditioning in dorms is considered a basic :P We really are spoiled in the West.

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#96
I find it interesting that the article takes every step except for the very last one.

The increase in public funding of universities has inflated the enrollment, decreased the quality of education, and increased the pricing by allowing sub-par schools to survive.

In any economic situation, an increase in the quantity of money trying to consume a restricted quantity of resources increases the price. This is an economic fact. How does the article simply make the point that the increase in public funding isn't why the costs have increased but not even bring up the correlation between the increase in funding and the costs going up??

If we have 100 apples of production a year at the current price, and someone comes along and gives people who want apples some money to buy apples, the apple seller can increase the price without much resistance. Everyone who wants apples pays more because the money in this market is inflated.

Government has inflated the market. As a 34 year old college senior about to graduate with honors, I see this every single day at school. The failure rates for the low levels classes is ~50% and even THAT is inflated because the teachers are frowned upon if they fail to pass students. When teachers fail to pass students, students drop out and the college stops getting money. So they string them along into higher and higher levels classes hoping they catch on and catch up. This has led to me being in 300-400 level computer science classes with people who have absolutely no business being in college at all, let alone anywhere near a computer.

They have no functional knowledge of computing, and have no chance of getting a job even if they manage to get through college with a C average.

Unfortunately, the higher level teachers bend to the lower capability in the class as well... I had a 425 advanced database class where the teacher told us that some people still had not managed to install mysql after the midterm...

The only reason kids were passing with C's is they were googling for answers on the open-laptop tests.

By subsidizing the marketplace, the government is allowing schools that should close or be radically reformed to continue chugging along.

Another tangental issue is college sports. Colleges can play all sorts of games with the way money is spent on college sports and athletes. Companies can donate huge sums of money for sports complexes that are suppose to benefit the entire student body, but the athletes at my school have a separate gym with high end amenities where the regular students use a cheaper gym with normal gym equipment. I pay for classes, but people who run faster than me get in for free, get easy A classes, and get high end amenities. They get free food, special athlete lodging, and the list goes on and on. All of this is coming out of the general coffers.

While they have both hot whirlpools and cold tanks to aid in their workout recovery, I'm in a "computer science" building rented off campus, with no place to plug in a power cord.

I'm really shocked to see the NYTimes go as far as they did. Certainly, the article will be met with spite from the left as well as the right.

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#97
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the way Sweden does many things, but: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Tax... It's political suicide in the US to raise taxes in any significant way, and so we suffer through the nonsense we've got.

It's important to put numbers in perspective. Every US citizen spends $98k over their expected lifetime on the military, for example. An average Swedish citizen spends $46k on state funded university and higher education over their expected lifetime (which is only slightly higher). That said, it should be obvious that the Sweden model doesn't suit conditions in the US (one is a small country in Northern Europe, one i…

If you look at the historic context of military vs. education spending, I don't think it's a straw man at all to point the difficulty of raising non-defense spending. In fact, the difficulty of raising taxes in the US is just put in more stark lighting when in perspective of the amounts spent on the military vs. everything else.

I'm not saying state spending is impossible, just that raising it for non-military items is exceedingly difficult. That's not the only reason why the US university system is worse in x way than y country's, but when we're discussing public funding of universities we have to acknowledge the political and fiscal realities of trying to do something about it. I say that when accounting for those realities and the difference in public funding levels for education and other programs, it's no surprise that we have students in debt.

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kinda too bad that the expected path is to go right to college after high school. Because,although it can be a lot of fun, it's an awfully expensive way to "detox" if one isn't even taking advantage of the school and its resources. I might have been more productive being a ski bum for a couple of years before heading to school.

I think the year-off strategy is a good one. Too many people go back to grad school almost just for a re-do. 18 is too young to pick a career - I switched majors twice in the first two years. I want to formulate a better set of options and incentives for my kids. To start, I could chip in for some tuition if they take a year off, or just minimally support them for that year as long as they leave home. The pull of pee…

18 is too young to pick a career

Pretty much everyone throughout human history, outside of recent Western history, would probably disagree with that. By 18 you were expected to be a self-supporting adult.

I think 18 is too young to pick a career only if you wait until you're 18 to start thinking about it. If you're encouraged and allowed to explore your interests earlier, you should have a pretty good idea of what you'd like to do by the time you're 18.

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One criticism I have of education systems is that they structurally encourage only superficially studying content. Let's take my compilers class as an example. I go to a 75 minute lecture 2 times a week and I do about 4 hours of homework a week. I do this over 18 weeks. That's only roughly 120 hours of study over the course of a semester. That's only as many hours as most full time employees work every 3 weeks! And t…

> Let's take my compilers class as an example. I go to a 75 minute lecture 2 times a week and I do about 4 hours of homework a week. I do this over 18 weeks. That's only roughly 120 hours of study over the course of a semester. That's only as many hours as most full time employees work every 3 weeks! The comparison doesn't seem fair. First, I suppose you have others classes at the same time. And if you don't, you're…

> Are you sure that you'd be able to do that? supervised education helps you to pace yourself, focus on what is important and to keep motivated over the long run. The actual content is maybe the least important.

I'm 100% sure. The motivation is all there. Why would I be in this class if I had to be coaxed into learning about it?

I think I can learn more in one long sitting than piecing away at any given topic. That's my personal experience. Instead I get distracted taking 5 courses at once and learn comparatively little.

> Besides, going through lex and yacc sources sounds like a huge waste of time for someone who wants to learn about compilation. There may be some value in this, but it should be last on your priority list.

I'm sorry but no. Compared to what we're actually doing, it's far far far better.

What am I going to come away with from the class? I guess I'll be a rock star interviewer, but I don't think I'll be much else.

Implementing something using only common tools and doing it without any code from the instructor would certainly result in more skills moving forward.

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which one? PKU? Qinghua? Shanghai Jiaotong? It is not such an easy choice anymore, and the universities in Beijing have poor facilities compared to Shanghai, making it difficult for them to attract shanghainese to come here to Beijing to study. Even chinese students these days want heated and air conditioned dormitories, a shower in their dorm (at least on their floor! Definitely not in a separate building), and clea…

I like how you're insinuating that current Chinese students are acting entitled by wanting heating and air conditioning in their dorms. Whereas in Canada/US, heating/air conditioning in dorms is considered a basic :P We really are spoiled in the West.

He is not saying they are acting entitled. Just saying it is a change from the past when they were ok accepting what we would consider lower standards as they didn't have much choice.
Post reply on HN