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Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

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Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#91

Post by logfromblammo »

ianstallings wrote: post #15

Warning: this opinion probably won't fit into the HN zeitgeist. If you commit a crime online don't be surprised when they seek to gain evidence against you. This isn't a liberty issue. This is a you're probably a criminal issue and law enforcement is coming after you. I don't protect drug dealers in my neighborhood because of their right to free speech and personal liberty so why would I protect these guys? It just a…

The Internet is an information network. There are only two things you can do with it: transmit bits and receive bits.

If your local authorities recognize the right to freely speak (and freely receive speech) you cannot commit a crime online.

In the case of buying or selling contraband, the crime occurs when the contraband physically transfers possession. The network is neither necessary nor sufficient to commit the crime.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#92

Post by dublinben »

technofiend wrote: post #69
im2w1l wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web of trust-based spam filtering takes some effort to use, but is a workable solution.

WoT is pointless when people can manufacture identities that trust each other and build a fake trust score for an id used to spam or whatever.

WoT can't be effectively spammed, unless those spam accounts are trusted by people you trust. The spam accounts can vouch for each other all they want (a la Twitter), but you control whose trust you value.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#93

Post by icebraining »

nickodell wrote: post #26
ianstallings wrote: post #15

Warning: this opinion probably won't fit into the HN zeitgeist. If you commit a crime online don't be surprised when they seek to gain evidence against you. This isn't a liberty issue. This is a you're probably a criminal issue and law enforcement is coming after you. I don't protect drug dealers in my neighborhood because of their right to free speech and personal liberty so why would I protect these guys? It just a…

I'm not sure why you think the majority of Hacker News would be against you. There are uncomfortable uses of state power in the drug war, like FISA warrants and civil asset forfeiture. This is not one of them. Edit after reading replies to your comment: Well, I guess I predicted wrongly.

There are two kinds of abuses of state power: one is when legal procedures are abused, which is what you described; the other is when, despite following proper procedures, the outcome is considered unjust. This is what many people feel about this situation.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#94

Post by imaginenore »

nickysielicki wrote: post #3

We (speaking as a netizen) need Usenet 2.0; eg: something that can fulfill the role of reddit that is decentralized/distributed. Perhaps reddit can even transition into being a reader (a la google reader) for people that don't want to set up their own node. I'm not saying that drug discussion is the quintessential act that deserves to be protected, but I am worried that the government has such an easy avenue to get t…

http://twister.net.co/

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#95

Post by aunty_helen »

paulhauggis wrote: post #66
dublinben wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they are criminals They likely disagree that their "crimes" ought to be illegal, and do not accept the legitimacy of any punishment for such behavior. Why should they have to "make a choice" and make "better decisions" when they don't believe what they've done is wrong?

Bernie Madoff didn't think he was doing anything wrong either. Why should he have to make a choice? The only reason you are making this comment is because you don't believe drugs (and drug dealing) should be illegal.

Rosa Parks didn't think she was doing anything wrong either. Why should she have to make a choice? The only reason you are making this comment is because you believe drugs (and drug dealing) should be illegal.

Or is it different because fast forward to today, looking back those laws were obviously wrong?

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#97

Post by realusername »

pyre wrote: post #52
sliverstorm wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite legal defense, moral relativism. "One day, this heinous crime I have committed might not be illegal. Knowing that, how can you possibly convict me!?"

The general stance that "you broke the law, now you're a criminal" may be technically correct, but most people issuing such statements group "criminals" into a singular group and feel that the serial murderer and the child rapist are no different than the guy that forgot he had an orange in his car when crossing the border. "You've broken the rules of society, you are no better than a vagabond!" In light of this, how…

That's mainly an issue with the poverty of the English language, in most languages, they are categories of criminals and they are called differently.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#98

Post by Lawtonfogle »

thejrk wrote: post #35
dublinben wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they are criminals They likely disagree that their "crimes" ought to be illegal, and do not accept the legitimacy of any punishment for such behavior. Why should they have to "make a choice" and make "better decisions" when they don't believe what they've done is wrong?

It doesn't matter if you disagree or not, it IS illegal.

Legally, in some places homosexuality is punished by death. The law is the law, so should they just shut up and be executed?

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#99

Post by ianstallings »

dataker wrote: post #39
ianstallings wrote: post #15

Warning: this opinion probably won't fit into the HN zeitgeist. If you commit a crime online don't be surprised when they seek to gain evidence against you. This isn't a liberty issue. This is a you're probably a criminal issue and law enforcement is coming after you. I don't protect drug dealers in my neighborhood because of their right to free speech and personal liberty so why would I protect these guys? It just a…

This matter is beyond using or selling drugs. The definition of crime is based on a law which isn't necessarily morally right. For example, in my country, discussing LGBT or even marijuana would get you into serious trouble. Hence, as internet users, we should look beyond our time and space, ensuring freedom of speech.

I do agree that people should fight for what they think is right and change societies rules if they feel they are unfair. But we have systems in place to do this. They're not perfect but they are there. It's wiser to use them and try and change things than to just ignore the law because you don't agree.

Edit: This applies for the USA. Other countries I can't really speak about. Some are truly oppressive and I doubt just using the system would accomplish much. I understand that. I don't know how to solve that problem unfortunately.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#100

Post by spacemanmatt »

tedunangst wrote: post #65
pyre wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general stance that "you broke the law, now you're a criminal" may be technically correct, but most people issuing such statements group "criminals" into a singular group and feel that the serial murderer and the child rapist are no different than the guy that forgot he had an orange in his car when crossing the border. "You've broken the rules of society, you are no better than a vagabond!" In light of this, how…

Welcome to life in a democracy. Stupid people voting for stupid laws. Why can't we just put the smart people in charge?

Some idiots think that's exactly what they did.
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