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Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

nytimes.com

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Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#91

Post by thinkcomp »

mherdeg wrote: post #74

I have often thought that Aaron Greenspan's attitude towards California money transmission law was a little aggressive, http://www.aarongreenspan.com/writing/20141022/the-common-se... , like, this guy is ranting about obscure laws and there is no way that the government would really abuse this legislation to shut down reasonable businesses. Then, in this complaint, I read ""On March 4, 2014, FORCE asked one of his co…

Thanks. Glad someone noticed, though aggressive overuse of 18 U.S.C. § 1960 at the federal level is hardly the biggest problem... See page 15:

http://www.aarongreenspan.com/writing/20131118.hsgacstatemen...

The real issues are at the state level, but as you can see, it's all intertwined.

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#92

Post by danielweber »

mcguire wrote: post #76
eli wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely is that it's far easier to prove that they didn't pay any taxes on the money than it is to prove they never should have received it.

"You seem to have a crap-ton of money with no clear provenance. That's smelling like tax evasion. "Oh, you stole it."

There's a line on tax returns for illegally gained money. I always wonder if anyone fills it in and what the result is.

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#93

Post by wavefunction »

lenlorijn wrote: post #84

So we're just going to ignore the rather awesome fact that there was "Special Agent Force" who was reckless and didn't abide by the rules, but got the criminals in the end? It sounds like a graphic novel or something.

He is a criminal himself, the worst kind: an official abusing their civil authority to enrich themselves and commit their crimes against many innocent people (Ulbricht not being one of those).

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#94

Post by Zigurd »

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #50
CPLX wrote: post #44

I encourage everyone with interest in the overall story to actually read the complaint. It's astonishing. It appears that these two Federal agents were doing far, far more than just grabbing some excess bitcoins that were lying around and they figured nobody would miss. It reads more like a purposeful organized crime effort, involving setting up dummy shell companies, forging letters from the government, being involv…

Indeed. It appears Force's fatal flaw was trusting an IRS Agent to help him out of a situation.

Guess what his business he is in now.

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#95

Post by Mandatum »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #4

Bitcoin seems to make everyone crazy. I guess if you're prone to theft and dishonesty, it must be tough to look at a folder on some confiscated PC with files worth tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars and not take them. Seems like everyday police corruption, like how drug dealers busted with thousands of dollars suddenly have a evidence locker inventory with zero cash. I'm glad the system is working, at least to…

It's not bitcoin, greed is rampant - pocketing cash is a lot easier than pocketing bitcoin. Bitcoin has traceability, and you would assume the average LEO wouldn't have a wealth of knowledge to steal and launder it without getting caught.

Cash on the other hand, they can take out of the brown paper bag, shove in their jacket and it's essentially theirs.

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#96

Post by shit_parade »

justathrow2k wrote: post #66
shit_parade wrote: post #33

How many bad apples until people declare the whole batch spoiled?

Well,it sounds like you've already made up your mind, so at what number did you reach the breaking point and made the decision that the entirety of our law enforcement system was spoiled?

When the Senate declared we torture people and the president decided not to prosecute.

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#97

Post by tptacek »

fiatmoney wrote: post #51
tptacek wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there some link you can point us to suggesting that that's happened in this case? There are 113,000 employees at DOJ, so, statistically, every case is always going to be one or two hops away from some kind of malfeasance somewhere, right?

If the complaint is "the DOJ routinely hides evidence and engages in corrupt behavior", it isn't exactly a counterargument to say "but you're always near some corruption at the DOJ, and besides, the DOJ hasn't released any evidence that they're not to be trusted". It is entirely likely, a priori, that there will be abuses in a system where violations of the law are, to a close approximation, unpunished, it is to thei…

There are over 100,000 employees at DOJ, and it would be an extraordinary claim to suggest that enough of them are corrupt to make this kind of corruption routine. It might be true, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Note that because of selection bias, links to Brady stories probably don't constitute "extraordinary" evidence.

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#98

Post by pluma »

emodendroket wrote: post #45
pluma wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trials have to prove someone is guilty beyond reasonable doubt . If agents involved in the investigations were caught misbehaving, that may very well add doubt to the validity of the investigation's results. Or at least it could delay the trial while the results are re-evaluated.

Well, I took a high school civics class too, but I don't see these guys as having been central to the case against Ulbricht at all.

I didn't (nor do I see what high school has to do with the most basic principle defining a state of law). And I didn't say they were central to the case, either.

But depending on the lawyers and the judge, this could have been used to construct something that would have affected either the progress or the outcome of the trial.

It's entirely philosophical anyway.

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#99

Post by emodendroket »

pluma wrote: post #98
emodendroket wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I took a high school civics class too, but I don't see these guys as having been central to the case against Ulbricht at all.

I didn't (nor do I see what high school has to do with the most basic principle defining a state of law). And I didn't say they were central to the case, either. But depending on the lawyers and the judge, this could have been used to construct something that would have affected either the progress or the outcome of the trial. It's entirely philosophical anyway.

> I didn't (nor do I see what high school has to do with the most basic principle defining a state of law).

It was my way of trying to suggest that, like everyone with a modicum of education in the United States, I'm aware of the principle that accused persons are innocent until proven guilty in US law, and you didn't really need to point it out to me like it was something I hadn't thought of.

Re: Two Federal Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

#100

Post by justathrow2k »

shit_parade wrote: post #96
justathrow2k wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well,it sounds like you've already made up your mind, so at what number did you reach the breaking point and made the decision that the entirety of our law enforcement system was spoiled?

When the Senate declared we torture people and the president decided not to prosecute.

Well, there's your answer.
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