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Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

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Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#91
post #4

Your co-workers sound horrible. While I agree that you could learn a lot from the experience, even so I wouldn't want to work with those people.

Everything is relative. When someone is defensive and self-conscious, it's incredibly hard to give feedback of any sort without them feeling "like an idiot".

Yeah I have a hard time telling what's definitely going on from the OP's description.

I personally find the most difficult people to work with are the people who have trouble filling the gaps in their knowledge themselves AND are evasive when they don't know something.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#92
Sounds like a broken culture. I won't comment on the normalcy of your situation, but I do not think it's acceptable.

If you want to stay, talk to your manager and explain you need more mentoring. Talk to the friendliest senior you can. You may just need to work on building g a relationship with someone. Junior employers should get mentoring, trading; they should be encouraged to make mistakes. You can find that somewhere, but you may need to search that not only excel technically, but also excel at managing people.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#93
Are you worried because you are lacking in domain knowledge that could only be known by working for the company for a significant amount of time? If so, I wouldn't worry so much, since that kind of experience only comes through time. Also, you're a Junior Developer, you shouldn't be expected to be an expert...yet :)

I do think it's troubling that you think everyone you work with is unhelpful. This is not normal and sounds like a potentially toxic environment. I'd make sure this is the case though before jumping to conclusions. Maybe some are just busy or you're asking for help at the wrong time (maybe try asking in advance through email/instant message and scheduling time on their calendar). Maybe it's neither of those, but just giving the benefit of the doubt. How often are you asking for help and have you already tried other (easy) means of assistance like the web/documentation/etc? Do you take notes to avoid repeating yourself or forgetting what you learned when you do get assistance?

Those in your team though should be the most helpful though since in theory, they depend on you and you depend on them, so assistance is mutually beneficial. Sometimes I will leave a junior developer to work out something on their own when they have already been through a similar scenario before. It can be hard to resist (learned that was rarely the best idea when tutoring a friend in school) rushing in and helping them too quick, but I tell myself they'll learn more if they try to think it through and refine those problem solving skills. In those cases, I have a pretty good idea that they know the answer, but it hasn't clicked yet. I mean if they get stuck on it for too long, I'll help them a long, but as a more senior developer you when you're helping and when you're just doing their work for them (the later rarely helps them to learn/understand).

My other thought it's maybe they're not helpful because they just suck at communication. Not talking so much about general communication as much as trying to convey a complex topic to someone else in a way that is relevant to the person trying to understand. Some just don't know as much as they claim about a subject to actually teach it to someone else or have the patience to do so.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#94
I've met three types of very good developers:

1. Humble and quiet

2. Bullies that grow to respect you

3. Bullies that stay bullies

From my experience:

- Never tolerate working with 3), it doesn't matter how good they are.

- You can have a good working relationship with 2) and make friends with them.

- You should be able to differentiate between 2) and 3) after a month - if you can't assume they're 3).

- Obviously seek out 1) and learn all you can from them.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#95
post #69

I'd go work somewhere else and here is why: You can learn anywhere, why work with a bunch of people who are not going to build you up and encourage you to improve yourself and by extension, the team/project. What are you really getting from these guys if it's "every man for himself" anyways? 1. Forget that, be confident. Just focus on improving yourself and on things that can make you better at your job. 2. No. I exp…

I agree with all that. I'd also add that I think the desire to get hired and be mentored is a common mistake. Coworkers don't have time to sit down and teach you 1on1. But what they do have time for is helping a coworker out if they are struggling on something. No they won't do your job for you but if theres something you don't understand ask for help. If you have to ask twice you didn't take good notes. Not asking m…

I seem to remember being pretty overwhelmed by the whole system as a junior. A decent explanation helps. And documentation.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#97
I've worked with those bitches. They were sharp, worked crazy hard. But ya, big fat dirty autistic bitches.

I retaliated by calling them rainman behind their backs. It worked surprisingly well to make me feel better.

I think that engineering gives people braindamage, or chars their soul, or something like that. I'm serious.

Yes, I left at end of contract.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#98

Basically, intelligence is a speed of processing. Assumedly every human being, given enough time, would be able to solve the same set of problems. The thing is that we only have 80 years to solve them! And also, there are more problems to be solved than anybody can in this small time frame, even with a IQ of 1000 (speed of processing). Now what does that mean for the slower minds, in a competitive environment? You ca…

Intelligence, the engineeringly problem-solving version anyway, looks like focus to me. So the superfocused win. The autistics win.

But those guys like to eat their own poo.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#99
post #74

Guess I'm in the rock star league, but I don't think I have a shitty attitude. I've worked with lots of weak programmers over the years and it can be disconcerning but that doesn't mean you should be an asshole for that. When people you work with asks "what's this strange Dictionary class you're using?" you take a deep sigh (internally, not so that they hear it) and explains that "a dictionary is a hash" and then the…

If you're learning, it's really important to have the skill of narrowing down what it is you don't know and formulating a clear question about it.

I've seen all sorts of failure modes with that:

* People asking overly broad questions, e.g. if they are having trouble using, say, a dictionary class: "How do dictionaries work?" rather than "I'm trying to do x with a dictionary and I can't figure out how to make it work - I tried the put() method but it doesn't do what I thought." This makes it very difficult to dig into what's actually being asked and provide a relevant answer.

* People not admitting what they don't know. E.g. maybe they just don't have a clue what a dictionary is, yet won't admit it.

* People making a lot of assumptions and not articulating them. This tends to manifest as a really specific question that doesn't make sense. E.g. "I tried to build a spellchecker and dictionary is not returning the right thing." Then it turns out they assumed dictionary was prepopulated with the English language. This is even worse if the person can't/won't explain their thought process when prompted.

* Not reading any of the docs. I ran programming tutorials at one point and it was remarkable how many questions would have been answered by the introductory paragraphs of the tutorial if they'd read them instead of skipping it then spending 10 minutes struggling with a problem that didn't make sense to them.

* Unwillingness to talk through things systematically, e.g. explaining code line-by-line. It's surprising how often people will ask for help, then lose patience with you once you want them to spend any amount of time explaining things. This is enormously effective - half the time they realize their mistake on their own.

Re: Ask HN: I am the dumbest person in the room. What should I do?

#100
That just sounds like a shit environment to work in. I know it's easier said than done, but find somewhere else to work. These guys sound like dicks. They are not stars. A star would mentor you and help you to get a leg up. That said... there is a certain amount of karma being dished out because you were cocky in the interview. Perhaps they think you should be able to hold your own. I guess you learned your lesson :P Of course, you have to have a certain amount of confidence in an interview to get your foot in the door - don't make the mistake that confidence and cockiness are the same thing. Perhaps they genuinely liked your cockiness - it sounds like it fits in with their culture.

1. Handle it the way you would handle anyone else being a dick in your life. Hold them accountable for their behaviour - call them on it.

2. Yes, it's quite common to be thrown to the lions - in fact, it's more common for this to happen than not to happen. A certain amount of this career is an ability to dig in and figure it out - for right or wrong. It's not ideal and it's certainly not in anyone's best interest for it to happen this way, but more often than not, that's exactly what happens. The sooner you get comfortable with this, the better. If you honestly care about your craft, the first few weeks/months of any job worth having is uncomfortable as you get up to speed. The only thing you can do here is learn to cope with that discomfort and try not to let it stress you out until you're up to speed. Don't make any decisions, nor let anyone voluntold you to do something within a timeline that adds additional discomfort during this time.

3. No. People with big egos have this rotten attitude. "Star/Ninja/Rock-stars" usually get big egos by being treated like the world revolves around their [often exaggerated] abilities are the only thing that holds the company together. If you treat someone like a superstar long enough, eventually they succumb to thinking they can act however the hell they want. This is why "popular" kids at school act like brats - because nobody holds them accountable for their behaviour.

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