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Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

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Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#91

Post by tootie »

chiph wrote: post #83
SwellJoe wrote: post #19

I suspect the cost of living data for Austin trails reality by some significant margin. The sources don't indicate the age of the data, but even if it's only a couple of years old, it's going to be wrong by enough to be a factor. I have lived in Austin for a couple of years, and also lived here (and owned a house here) about 8 years ago. The cost of homes here has gone up tremendously since then. I was shopping for a…

I have the same problem in Austin. Prices are going up faster than I can save, even accounting for the downpayment leverage. There's no way that I can compete with the all-cash offers that are $10k and $20k above asking price that are being made by investors and people from California and overseas. Knowing that it's a bubble, I think I'm going to have to wait until it pops, and just keep renting until then. Because c…

Oh Austin is so cute. I've lost apartments in Brooklyn getting outbid by $300K.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#92

Post by illumin8 »

s3nnyy wrote: post #43
BSousa wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But do you think you are the exception or the norm? I've looked into Zurich real-estate last year and 1000CHF wouldn't even come close to the prices I saw for a small 2br. The idea of the average adjustments is to get a general idea of the cost of living.

I am an exception as I rent a room for 500 CHF (the norm is 750-1000 CHF). Also, I pay 200 CHF for the cheapest insurance. Then, I budget about 300 CHF to buy food. If you insist on renting a nice 2bd aparment, you can do so for 2500 CHF in Zurich-city. If you move just slightly out of town, prices drop. I live on the southern end of town and my company is in the north. It takes me only 35 min to go through the whole…

It's easy to say COL is innacurate if you're a single person willing to live a frugal lifestyle. These are typically based on average family size, so in the US, that's a family with 2.3 children. I'm not sure what the average family size is in Switzerland.

My point being- I used to be able to save a tremendous amount of money; something like 65% of my after tax income, when I was single. Now that I'm married with two kids, I'm only able to save a much smaller 35%. I still live frugally, however, when you have young kids going to school, it's no longer possible to live like a monk. School is expensive, and kids are expensive to raise.

Cost of living is a very valid metric. At a minimum, it reflects the local property tax rates, which are basically the cost of schools and other government services.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#93

Post by tootie »

m0th87 wrote: post #63

I've lived in several of these cities briefly (Seattle, Austin), and a long-term (Raleigh, NYC). If you can put up with the car culture - which you have to if you want to live outside of NYC or Chicago - Raleigh is a great city. Very low cost of living, a burgeoning downtown night-life and cultural scene, and very warm, likable people. Austin has a much better downtown, but I'd be concerned about traffic moving there…

I love how "put up with car culture" is a thing for our generation. Previous generation it would be "put up with not being able to drive". I'm fighting a losing battle against life in the suburbs but my one hope is that by the time I give in, I can commute in a self-driving car.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#94

Post by xacaxulu »

This is something a lot of us have instinctively felt for a long time, hence all job action in places like Austin, Denver, Raleigh, etc. And I've worked in SF, Denver and Raleigh, NC enough to know the differences. If I can make 6 figures in both SF and Raleigh, the cost of living and quality of life are insanely better in Raleigh. I own a condo, a car and have tons of discretionary income. For the same type of work in the bay area, I'd have to contend with ridiculous rents, ridiculous taxes, longish commutes and increased expenses on food/misc items. These increases are not commensurate with the increase in salary that usually goes along with moving to the bay area. My actual income when adjusted for these factors is better than friends who make ~200k in SF.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#95

Post by jkot »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #72
jkot wrote: post #46

How about Chiang Mai or other city with large digital nomad community?

You won't be pulling in any local income in those cities (all work would be remote, you would be dodging thai taxes on income taxed in a western country), so it wouldn't be a very realistic comparison.

Not really: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Also there are many people who are permanent and pay Thai taxes.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#96

Post by johnward »

tootie wrote: post #93
m0th87 wrote: post #63

I've lived in several of these cities briefly (Seattle, Austin), and a long-term (Raleigh, NYC). If you can put up with the car culture - which you have to if you want to live outside of NYC or Chicago - Raleigh is a great city. Very low cost of living, a burgeoning downtown night-life and cultural scene, and very warm, likable people. Austin has a much better downtown, but I'd be concerned about traffic moving there…

I love how "put up with car culture" is a thing for our generation. Previous generation it would be "put up with not being able to drive". I'm fighting a losing battle against life in the suburbs but my one hope is that by the time I give in, I can commute in a self-driving car.

That's only a thing for people who live in NYC, Chicago, and maybe the Bay. The rest of us still need cars. I live pretty far away but my commute to Pittsburgh is ~2 hours each way.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#97

Post by chucksmash »

cjslep wrote: post #80
m0th87 wrote: post #63

I've lived in several of these cities briefly (Seattle, Austin), and a long-term (Raleigh, NYC). If you can put up with the car culture - which you have to if you want to live outside of NYC or Chicago - Raleigh is a great city. Very low cost of living, a burgeoning downtown night-life and cultural scene, and very warm, likable people. Austin has a much better downtown, but I'd be concerned about traffic moving there…

Raleigh's location also opens up a lot of roadtrip options, too: It is just several hours from the nation's capital, the outer bank islands, the Appalachian Mountains, and "big city" events at Charlotte and/or Atlanta. When going to the mountains or beaches, there are the options of exploring something more commercialized (Boone, Wrightsville Beach) or more rural (Cape Hatteras National Seashore, Maggie Valley, etc).

Atlanta is only 50 road miles closer to Raleigh than New York City.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#98

Post by Spooky23 »

SwellJoe wrote: post #19

I suspect the cost of living data for Austin trails reality by some significant margin. The sources don't indicate the age of the data, but even if it's only a couple of years old, it's going to be wrong by enough to be a factor. I have lived in Austin for a couple of years, and also lived here (and owned a house here) about 8 years ago. The cost of homes here has gone up tremendously since then. I was shopping for a…

The life hack to actually come out ahead is to avoid these places and find a good opportunity in a cheaper place. I don't know a lot about Austin, but I'm familiar with NYC, and I think that example works too.

If you define the "cool" part of NYC as being in Manhattan, once you have a family it's irrelevant, because you can't live there... like 98% of everyone else, you end up in Jersey, the boroughs, or Long Island. Three hours north of NYC, a house costs 60-80% less, and you have the essentially the same access to NYC cool stuff without the hassle of NYC.

In my case, paying 7% of income for a mortgage on a nice big house that I will own in 15-20 years and banking savings is more appealing than some interest only loan on a $750k raised ranch in a big metro area. Barring building a successful business, a lottery-style liquidity event or selling your soul to some hedge fund, I don't see a reliable way to live in NYC, SFO, etc and coming out with any wealth.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#99

Post by johnward »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #90
johnward wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was kind of looking for that too. Cost of living in this area is pretty low and the tech scene is growing. The only downside is you have to live in Pittsburgh and I actually like sunshine so I've been thinking of moving.

Our city isn't that bad! Though it does rain a good deal, and is cloudy a lot. That said there are a lot of amenities (museums, shows, groups, &c) and things-to-do, so we're not as isolated and dull as a lot of people I've met feel we are.

I live in Ohio but work in Squirrel Hill. The city has transformed over the years and is a really nice place. The only downside is the weather. This time of year it's easier to complain about weather but we literally get some of the lowest amount of direct sunlight in the country. We basically have 2 seasons: 4 months of summer, 8 months of winter/grey. Other than that the area is ok. Where I live it's pretty depressing old industry towns with nothing left, but like I said I don't live in Pittsburgh.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#100

Post by sb8244 »

chucksmash wrote: post #97
cjslep wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Raleigh's location also opens up a lot of roadtrip options, too: It is just several hours from the nation's capital, the outer bank islands, the Appalachian Mountains, and "big city" events at Charlotte and/or Atlanta. When going to the mountains or beaches, there are the options of exploring something more commercialized (Boone, Wrightsville Beach) or more rural (Cape Hatteras National Seashore, Maggie Valley, etc).

Atlanta is only 50 road miles closer to Raleigh than New York City.

Maybe it's just how I read this sentence, but I think "Raleigh is 50 road miles closer to Atlanta than it is to NYC" cleared things up for me.

Regardless, that's a really interesting fun fact I learned today.

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