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Fuck It, I'm Going Back to Firefox

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Re: Fuck It, I'm Going Back to Firefox

#91
I think there's a general principle here, that can be applied to nearly any case of "That software is big and bloated and disorganized, it's time to create a lean alternative from scratch."

It's easy(ish) to create a first release of a product that is lean and efficient and has well-organized code.

Then you start addressing all the edge cases that it turns out you really want to handle but weren't, and adding various features that you realize really are important (that the original 'competitor' may have had some version of already too)...

Pretty soon you realize that keeping your software lean and efficient and well-organized is _hard_, the reason the original competitor was bloated and a mess was _not_ that their developers aren't as smart as yours. It's cause it's way harder to do this with living evolving software past the 1.0 release.

Doesn't mean it's impossible to keep post-1.0, mature, feature-complete software lean and efficient and well-organized. It's just hard. And will slow down your new-feature release cycle.

This cautionary note can apply to just about any "Why is X so bloated and/or such a mess internally or in it's API's, can't we write a new one without those problems?" Popular X's might include "Rails", or an existing programming language in favor of a new hot programming language.

Now, the experience of the first one that "went wrong" might be useful in creating a second one that does better -- but for it to be so, you actually have to _understand_ the experience of the first one, why various decisions were made at various times that led to "the mess". Not just assume it's because you've got smarter devs than them. And in many cases, might require making some fundamental different decisions about scope, architecture, or other goals, than the first one did -- and sticking to them.

This is related to, and kind of a generalization of, the famous Joel "rewriting software is a mistake" argument, but shouldn't be oversimplified to "never bother trying to create new software that's better than software already out there", of course.

Re: Fuck It, I'm Going Back to Firefox

#92
post #81

My biggest reason for not using Firefox is that I always keep 2 browser windows open in Chrome, one is for my work account and the other is for my personal account. I like this separation. IIRC you can't have 2 profiles open at the same time in Firefox and even switching between profiles is not easy. I do use Firefox on my personal laptop, but I spend 8 hours a day on my work laptop and need this feature.

firefox --new-instance --ProfileManager

Re: Fuck It, I'm Going Back to Firefox

#93
Still using Opera 12.16 for borwsing, the best browser there is. It still has far more "useful" feature than many other browser, to name a few:

- ctrl + tab that really works like it should, no sequential switching through tabs - per site user-agent/js settings

For development I still use firefox; chrome has been too aggressive with their caching in my experience. Plus some one else mentioned, I don't like my browser to link to my account!

Re: Fuck It, I'm Going Back to Firefox

#94
post #16

I have some serious issues with Chrome (the permaloading, it's new download blocking 'feature', poor startup time), but I did not find Firefox remotely an improvement. On my system it is half as fast, twice as buggy, and even more memory hungry than Chrome is. I think people overstate Chrome's memory usage as a factor of performance; IME it's still less than FF in total most times, and largely that memory cost doesn'…

How long since you last tried Firefox? This is almost completely opposite my experience with Firefox vs. Chrome. Chrome for 4 tabs consumes about 600MB, Firefox for those same 4 plus 8 more consumes 400MB. I also haven't seen any significant memory leaks in the last year or two. Sad to say, but 1.4 G is not uncommmon (or even unreasonable) for any browser these days, mostly due not to the browser itself, but the reso…

How long since you last tried Firefox?

Within the last three months.

Re: Fuck It, I'm Going Back to Firefox

#95
post #7

The biggest issue I have with Chrome is how aggressive it's been about linking Google IDs with the browser. I've lost data twice by bugs related to not having a linked ID. Please Google, understand this; I don't want my browser linked with my Google account.

> I don't want my browser linked with my Google account.

You might want to pay a lot more attention to SSL-based tracking methods, e.g. https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/Home/chromium-se...

Uncoupling your use of Google services from your other online activities is much harder than many people seem to believe.

Re: Fuck It, I'm Going Back to Firefox

#96
post #52
post #9

I have tried it many times but failed. The reason - if firfox memory goes too high, which happens frequently, there is no option to kill single tab(in the stable version) like Google Chrome. I have started using Firefox Nightly (because of separate process feature) but it keeps on crashing. So I am ready to jump on it as soon as we have new stable build with separate process for each tab.

1) What do you do to make "Firefox memory goes too high" 2) What does about:crashes say for the crashes you get? Are those known bugs?

If you use AdBlockPlus, you can switch to uBlock (https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock) to achieve better memory performance.

Re: Fuck It, I'm Going Back to Firefox

#97
post #73
post #16

I have some serious issues with Chrome (the permaloading, it's new download blocking 'feature', poor startup time), but I did not find Firefox remotely an improvement. On my system it is half as fast, twice as buggy, and even more memory hungry than Chrome is. I think people overstate Chrome's memory usage as a factor of performance; IME it's still less than FF in total most times, and largely that memory cost doesn'…

I'm having high hopes for Vivaldi. Chromium with less bloatware but with real Operawesomeness.

The tech preview was very promising. It's definitely something I'd like to keep an eye on.

Re: Fuck It, I'm Going Back to Firefox

#98
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its been my recent experience too, I keep a lot of tabs open and began to notice Chrome was filling up my memory. Very strange that Google let the situation get so bad. Mind you I find the Chrome developer tools far more powerful and intuitive than those in Firefox which stops me moving entirely.

> I keep a lot of tabs open and began to notice Chrome was filling up my memory. I had this problem too and found that Chrome was getting so slow that it was unusable. For those who have this problem and don't want to switch from Chrome there is an extension called "The Great Suspender" which dumps background tabs after a configurable time period of inactivity. It helped immensely.

This looks exceptionally helpful. I have around 50 tabs open, nominally, and my CPU fan is almost perpetually on high for it. Just before installing it, however, I found myself wondering, "Why am I using an app which allows me to keep more tabs open? Why am I not using bookmarks?"

Why do we keep open 500 tabs instead of using bookmarks these days?

Re: Fuck It, I'm Going Back to Firefox

#99
Firefox's performance has improved a lot and that's really impressive. I tried moving back to Firefox but in the end I just prefer the Chrome UI too much. Using a custom search engine on Chrome can be just a matter of a couple of key presses after opening a new tab whereas in firefox I'm either stuck holding down alt and using the arrow keys or switching to my mouse. And adding new search engines is super easy in Chrome as well.

EDIT: Oh, and there was also having my browser UI lock up when a page had a misbehaving script but that might have been due to an older version of firefox.

Re: Fuck It, I'm Going Back to Firefox

#100
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long since you last tried Firefox? This is almost completely opposite my experience with Firefox vs. Chrome. Chrome for 4 tabs consumes about 600MB, Firefox for those same 4 plus 8 more consumes 400MB. I also haven't seen any significant memory leaks in the last year or two. Sad to say, but 1.4 G is not uncommmon (or even unreasonable) for any browser these days, mostly due not to the browser itself, but the reso…

You might want to check your extensions. I know AdBlock+ is a very popular, common, RAM-hungry extension

I moved to a hosts file based ad blocking solution, which has worked well for me thus far.

http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/

But when you have youtube, gmail, and other web applications open, memory usage tends to go nuts. I've been told that it's technically impossible for a web application to have a memory leak, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

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