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Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

wisdomination.com

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Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#91
If you want to accomplish something, what you need is discipline and motivation to be one and the same, or at least so interrelated that they are inseparable.

To others it looks like you have discipline, because they can't imagine anyone working so hard at something. But to you, it's just what you love.

Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#92
post #63

This seems to me to be a bit like saying "screw hammers, what you need are screwdrivers." There's a brilliant talk by John Cleese that floats around HN every 6 months or so on how to be creative; if you haven't seen it yet, and you're interested in such a topic, please please please watch it: http://vimeo.com/89936101 If you agree with Cleese's premise, I think it follows that what you need is motivation for the open…

For an apposite view: http://www.stevenpressfield.com/the-war-of-art/ The premise is The muse is at your writing desk. If you want to write a book, show up. Sit down. Write. Ideas will only come if you are working. Any thoughts ideas, rationalisations or fears that keep you from writing are the enemy. He collectively calls them "resistance". You will inevitably have days and weeks without a useful page. Show up still…

Great book! If you like The War of Art, I'd also recommend the follow up book: Do The Work http://www.stevenpressfield.com/do-the-work/

Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#94

This seems to me to be a bit like saying "screw hammers, what you need are screwdrivers." There's a brilliant talk by John Cleese that floats around HN every 6 months or so on how to be creative; if you haven't seen it yet, and you're interested in such a topic, please please please watch it: http://vimeo.com/89936101 If you agree with Cleese's premise, I think it follows that what you need is motivation for the open…

Thanks for the video! I find this submission and the video you linked talking about being in an "open" or "closed" state ironic for me, because I just made a relevant comment on the football thread yesterday [1].

My argument was that rather than focusing so much on the reasons why people are or aren't interested in football, we should be concerned about the amount of time that debate and following football itself consume and how it is hardly beneficial to our long term growth. Having fun is important and people should spend time doing whatever makes them happy, but it would be better if we weren't so consumed by these pass-times and allowed ourselves to be disciplined. At the same time though we shouldn't completely shut everything else out. I used the term "open minded", and my intention behind the use of that term really vibes with the "open" state that Cleese talks about.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8974997

Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#95
Incidentally, I am reading Cal Newport's "So Good ..." and the thoughts in this article resonate with some of those expressed in Cal's book. Half way through the book right now, and I can say that it is an unusual advice made to a society that harps the passion hypothesis. An interesting thing is on Amazon, the book that allegedly started/fueled the passion hypothesis (What Color is your Parachute?) gets 5 stars from 62% of the reviews, whereas "So Good ..." gets 5 stars from 56% of the reviews!

If you are born and brought up in a setup where passion hypothesis is predominant, the advice "passion is rare and is a side-effect of mastery/hard-work" and "skill trumps passion" comes as an eye-opener.

Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#96
post #63

This seems to me to be a bit like saying "screw hammers, what you need are screwdrivers." There's a brilliant talk by John Cleese that floats around HN every 6 months or so on how to be creative; if you haven't seen it yet, and you're interested in such a topic, please please please watch it: http://vimeo.com/89936101 If you agree with Cleese's premise, I think it follows that what you need is motivation for the open…

For an apposite view: http://www.stevenpressfield.com/the-war-of-art/ The premise is The muse is at your writing desk. If you want to write a book, show up. Sit down. Write. Ideas will only come if you are working. Any thoughts ideas, rationalisations or fears that keep you from writing are the enemy. He collectively calls them "resistance". You will inevitably have days and weeks without a useful page. Show up still…

I'd suggest the Unquiet Grave (Cyril Connolly) as an older but richer and more creative examination of the issue.

If I took my lead from Palinurus, I'd remark that 'the war of art' demonstrates the cultural penury of our age.

But then Palinurus took that view of himself too.

Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#97
"Because real life in the real world occasionally requires people do things that nobody in their right mind can be massively enthusiastic about, 'motivation' runs into the insurmountable obstacle of trying to elicit enthusiasm for things that objectively do not merit it."

Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#98
This author has obviously never had to deal with ADHD... If you replace work with going to the gym, discipline says "go to the gym" but regardless of discipline you cannot lift the 300 lb weight." Likewise, discipline can get me to sit at my desk, but it alone cannot make me do the work. It is not physically possible. There really does need to be something else. Motivation, incentive etc.

Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#99
post #22
post #2

This is probably the best post to hit HN all month. It's a thing that I notice over and over again, the ability to execute and persevere is strongly correlated with individuals that show (self)discipline. The ability to get out of bed (even when you don't want to) to work real hard (even when faced with a hundred or more distractions, or on something that you may not even like) and the ability to keep a long term goa…

Do you know of any adults who have successfully cultivated discipline? Based on those I've known since elementary school and still know today, perhaps 80% of the discipline I see in people can be explained by how much discipline they had at 10 years of age.

I channel some of my motivation into cultivating discipline. I also apply discipline to periodically remotivate myself.

In practice this means I'll do a hackathon to build something I want, while limiting myself to using one new technology that has to be relevant to my startup.

To stay motivated I pitch everyone I can because nothing motivates me as much as other people getting excited.

As someone that used to lack motivation and discipline, this has kept be going on my startup for 4+ years.

Re: Screw motivation, what you need is discipline

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno - I think that it makes some good overall points, but paints too black & white a picture that, if you follow it literally, will eventually lead to a breakdown where you can't accomplish anything. I think a better perspective is to think of yourself as having a "discipline budget". (This is actually born out by a lot of fMRI studies, which show that when you will yourself to do something unpleasant or difficul…

Do you have any references to the fMRI studies? I've never gone to the source for that sort of thing, and would appreciate a lead in getting started (not really sure where to even start looking). The idea that we can biochemically run out of what powers willpower is a neat one. I feel like that implies there's something we can do to just replenish it, but making assumptions like that about complex things like brain c…

This seems related: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/magazine/do-you-suffer-fro...
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