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The Way We Hire Is All Wrong

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Re: The Way We Hire Is All Wrong

#91

>Staffup Weekend put the lie to Stein’s pronouncement. As Nicholson later wrote me, “The fact that people stayed for 48 hours to work on something put them head and shoulders above the thousands of applications we receive, because the participants are people who show up and see things through.” And this event is an attempt to make showing up for a 48 hour 'work trial' a norm. This favors the younger, single populatio…

Agree! I am tempted to show up with my 18 month old and have him run amok :)... or better still have the others take care of him while I show off my coding skills!

Re: The Way We Hire Is All Wrong

#92
post #26

What a bizarre and compelling story. Glad to have read it. Meanwhile I think the hiring problem/solution is staring us right in the face. What would the world be like if contract/freelance/part time/short term work were the default? Isn't it perhaps weird that there is an assumption companies and employees should bind their fates together, and, if it doesn't work out, one or both parties is pretty screwed because of…

> What would the world be like if contract/freelance/part time/short term work were the default? That's actually one of the reasons I find the idea of a guaranteed basic income so promising. The biggest thing making an "everybody freelances" world a dystopia rather than a eutopia (sic) is that it would eliminate any semblance of income stability. Static long-term contracts would still be an option because of the reli…

What's the weekly rate of the average freelance software developer? And how does that compare with that of a freelance bartender, nightwatchman or refuse collector?

Relying on a BI (at any feasible level) for even a fairly brief period of time is going to represent a severe drop in income for most skilled contractors, and thus people paying mortgages on their condos in SF are going to be just as worried about income instability as before.

Re: The Way We Hire Is All Wrong

#93
Nicholson here.

I sponsored Staffup Weekend, brought Brooke Allen to SF, and helped Deborah Branscum write her story for Medium. I did it because I'm the in-house recruiter for FutureAdvisor (https://www.futureadvisor.com), and recruiting is a mess.

FutureAdvisor hired me to do PR. But after we raised our Series B last year, our main problem was converting capital to talent, so that's what I did. I didn't choose recruiting; recruiting chose me. Just like it will choose many of the hackers on this thread who become entrepreneurs. I hope they can learn from our story.

The first thing a new recruiter notices is that recruiting is incredibly wasteful. It wastes time, emotion and money (contingency-based recruiters charge employers about 25% of a hire's first year salary, so they're paying an extra $35K to hire a software engineer at $140K). It wastes them for both the candidates and the hiring managers. Many of the flaws of the process arise from that wastefulness.

The problem at the heart of recruiting is how to gather good information about strangers in order to make a long-term commitment. It's basically the same problem you have when you're dating.

And, just as in dating, there's a lot of noise in the market. Everyone's beautiful with a little Photoshop. It takes a long time to get to learn who they really are, and what they can do.

To illustrate how wasteful the job market is, just imagine that both candidates and recruiters are sending out very similar, only slightly tailored information to every person on their list, day after day. If someone bites, then you escalate commitment and do a preliminary phone call.

I, as a recruiter, take the call with the candidate, because we don't know how good they are yet, and I cannot waste my engineers' time. We are strapped. That's why we need to hire people. (Non-technical recruiters get a lot of hate from technical candidates who do not understand this.)

If the candidate answers all the questions right that I have been instructed to ask, then I pass them on to the engineers for two technical interviews. If those go well, we invite them in for an onsite visit. In 90% of all cases, the onsite visit results either the company or the candidate rejecting the other. At that point, almost all the information they have gathered about each other is thrown out and never thought of again. (Sure, Glassdoor has some reviews and tips, but they're minimal.) That's the waste.

Those rejections do not necessarily imply that the company or the candidate is bad, or unsuitable to work with at all, just that they're not quite the right fit. It's just like dating. Sometimes the chemistry ain't right. That doesn't mean anyone's a bad person.

There are a couple ways that we, singly and collectively, can try to solve this problem. And they all have to do with how the information is processed. Employers who trust each other could join together in a cross-referral system where they share candidates who were talented but not quite the right fit. FutureAdvisor is part of a couple of those networks, like YC, and they work OK. Their main purpose is to get total strangers one step further toward entering the circle of trust.

Candidates could do the same for each other. It would be a sort of viral networking, where within a circle of trust, everybody's contacts become everyone else's contacts. In both cases, information that one candidate or employer has gathered at great cost to themselves can be shared, rather than thrown away.

Another aspect of the job market is that companies and candidates are asking for the wrong information. Google used to ask for GPAs and Ivy League pedigrees, both crappy metrics. The great thing about professions like programming and design is that you can show your stuff. (Bizdev and middle managers, as a counter example, have a much harder time providing a portfolio of what they do.)

With makers, at least there's a baseline. All hiring managers need to do, after they look at your Github, is figure out whether you are in fact the person who coded it, and how much time it takes you to solve similar problems. Another way of saying this: The only thing that correlates with performance is performance. And that's all that good companies should care about.

So how do they obtain that information in an efficient way?

Batch processing. Staffup Weekend was an attempt at batch processing. We wanted to see a lot of people work at the same time. We made the event free. We asked people to create something they cared about. The ones that came, did so voluntarily. Whether they got a job or not, they walked away having done something they wanted to do. It was a pretty good experience.

But it could have been a lot better. I wish that other employers had been involved, to make it more valuable for the candidates who attended (we invited other companies, but got little response.) I could have given better feedback on the work people did.

On a meta level, teams were invited to create tools to fix the job market. One group created a Chrome plugin called Contactr.io, which shows you the emails of company founders when you visit their corporate website.

There are probably a lot of other ways to fix things. I hope someone on Hacker News will found something that makes hiring and getting a job easier. That person will become rich, famous and universally loved.

I also hope that someone reading this post is an infrastructure engineer with AWS, Linux, Bash and Ruby under his or her belt. If that's you, please write: chris dot nicholson at futureadvisor dot com. Only you can save us, Obi-Wan.

https://boards.greenhouse.io/futureadvisor/jobs/26313#.VMkv_...

Re: The Way We Hire Is All Wrong

#94
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would the world be like if contract/freelance/part time/short term work were the default? That's actually one of the reasons I find the idea of a guaranteed basic income so promising. The biggest thing making an "everybody freelances" world a dystopia rather than a eutopia (sic) is that it would eliminate any semblance of income stability. Static long-term contracts would still be an option because of the reli…

What's the weekly rate of the average freelance software developer? And how does that compare with that of a freelance bartender, nightwatchman or refuse collector? Relying on a BI (at any feasible level) for even a fairly brief period of time is going to represent a severe drop in income for most skilled contractors, and thus people paying mortgages on their condos in SF are going to be just as worried about income…

My rack rate, when I was contracting was $150/hr. So yeah a basic income would have covered basically my health insurance maybe, if I didn't have a gig.

But with a rate like that, I didn't have to work but 3/4 time to feel flush.

Re: The Way We Hire Is All Wrong

#96
post #66

"We found zero relationship. It’s a complete random mess." Something overlooked is the millions (billions?) of non-productive labor hours that go into the failed traditional hiring process, when even the smartest guys in the room have to admit that upon statistical analysis its all a waste of time. That's an enormous staggering financial drain on the economy. Overall, across the entire economy, the overall minimum co…

What's important here is that what you have here is only one side of the coin.

If you're looking at the performance of only those who make it successfully, what you don't know is how the people who didn't make it through the process would perform on a comparative basis.

For example.... There's a pool of candidates, 90% weak, 10% strong (weak and strong if they were measured post-hiring). If your recruitment process took that ratio and ensures you hire 50% weak and 50% strong, that's obviously not completely wasted effort.

Re: The Way We Hire Is All Wrong

#97
post #26

What a bizarre and compelling story. Glad to have read it. Meanwhile I think the hiring problem/solution is staring us right in the face. What would the world be like if contract/freelance/part time/short term work were the default? Isn't it perhaps weird that there is an assumption companies and employees should bind their fates together, and, if it doesn't work out, one or both parties is pretty screwed because of…

> What would the world be like if contract/freelance/part time/short term work were the default? That's actually one of the reasons I find the idea of a guaranteed basic income so promising. The biggest thing making an "everybody freelances" world a dystopia rather than a eutopia (sic) is that it would eliminate any semblance of income stability. Static long-term contracts would still be an option because of the reli…

    a dystopia rather than a eutopia (sic)
This is an awesome typo. "Utopia" is a transliteration from Ancient Greek meaning "No place." The same rules of transliteration would make "eutopia" mean "good place."

"Utopia" came into English through a satire, the meaning being that nowhere's really paradise, but today we mostly use it without that edge, i.e., as if it really were spelled "eutopia."

Re: The Way We Hire Is All Wrong

#98

I strongly believe that hiring should be based on data. Based on the following 5 factors: 1.Intellect 2.Values 3.Motivations 4.Behaviours 5.Experience With these factors you can determine a persons Cultural Fit and predicted future performance. In fact, you could automate this through technology. For example, for predicting future performance we could test the high performers in our company then we have a template fo…

I have no idea why this comment got so downvoted. This is exactly the software I've spent the last year building and it works incredibly well for our customers.

I think it's the "software" part that is getting down voted not the 5 attributes... I'm legitimately curious, how do you measure those things quantitatively?

Re: The Way We Hire Is All Wrong

#99
post #79
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would the world be like if contract/freelance/part time/short term work were the default? That's actually one of the reasons I find the idea of a guaranteed basic income so promising. The biggest thing making an "everybody freelances" world a dystopia rather than a eutopia (sic) is that it would eliminate any semblance of income stability. Static long-term contracts would still be an option because of the reli…

That's actually one of the reasons I find the idea of a guaranteed basic income so promising. The biggest thing making an "everybody freelances" world a dystopia rather than a eutopia (sic) is that it would eliminate any semblance of income stability. Don't forget health care. That plus a basic living stipend would be quite a revolution to the economy. We'd start to price activities more sanely, and use automation mo…

> Don't forget health care. That plus a basic living stipend would be quite a revolution to the economy.

Don't get me wrong, I think this would be incredible, but where would the money come from to fund this? How would you guarantee that the funding stays in place for the long haul?

Re: The Way We Hire Is All Wrong

#100
post #93

Nicholson here. I sponsored Staffup Weekend, brought Brooke Allen to SF, and helped Deborah Branscum write her story for Medium. I did it because I'm the in-house recruiter for FutureAdvisor ( https://www.futureadvisor.com ), and recruiting is a mess. FutureAdvisor hired me to do PR. But after we raised our Series B last year, our main problem was converting capital to talent, so that's what I did. I didn't choose re…

It sounds to me like FutureAdvisor might have a problem with low compensation. Previously you mentioned making 8 offers at this event, and only one accepted. And these are candidates who specifically had 2 days free to work on receiving a job, so they have lower compensation requirements then an average dev of equivalent skill, and still 7 of the 8 rejected your offer.

This doesn't seem to me to be a problem of market efficiency, but just trying to use the inefficient state of the market to find the best candidate for the lowest price.

Also to reduce the work of interviewing candidates that won't take your offer when you make it have you tried telling your candidates what the expected compensation is?

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