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Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

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Re: Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

#91

Post by narag »

omegaham wrote: post #64
hibikir wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just random vs random. Two extremely weak players will take hours to finish a won game, because the player with the major material advantage does not know how to win! When teaching kids, it's not uncommon to, after teaching them how to move all the pieces, spend time teaching them how to perform the most basic of mates: KQ vs K, KRR vs K, KR vs K. Only after those three are mastered we have a good opportunit…

I still don't know how to checkmate with two bishops. I mean, I've read how to do it, but if you stuck me in an endgame situation, I'd probably draw. Luckily, I have never actually had an endgame with a king and two bishops versus a king. Same thing with king, knight, and bishop.

I have a humble level and did checkmate both with two bishops and with bishop and knight... yes, I've found both finals. I had learned the mecanics years before, didn't remember exactly how, but it wasn't so difficult to find the path with enough time.

What I don't want to find is queen vs. rook. I played once queen and pawn vs. rook and won, but it was painful. It seems there are some masters that are specialists in drawing in this positions, even if it should always be a win. Computers with end tables have not this problem.

Re: Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

#92

Post by rockdoe »

donmb wrote: post #85
omegaham wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't know how to checkmate with two bishops. I mean, I've read how to do it, but if you stuck me in an endgame situation, I'd probably draw. Luckily, I have never actually had an endgame with a king and two bishops versus a king. Same thing with king, knight, and bishop.

More interesting is checkmate with two knights which is only possible if the other king makes a mistake. You cannot force it so if two good players end up in this situation, they mostly agree on a draw.

There's absolutely nothing interesting about a position which is game-theoretically a draw and actually needs a fairly big blunder to be winnable which is why no-one even bothers in practice.

More interesting is that the position is actually winnable if the losing side has an extra piece (a pawn that isn't too advanced up to board).

Re: Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

#93

Post by [deleted] »

jerf wrote: post #36
joshvm wrote: post #27

Some interesting things happen here, the queens almost always seem to go first in my games (perhaps because of their freedom of movement they tend to end up in dangerous territory quickly). Also lots of pawn promotions make the mid-end games a lot more fun, although as the promotion is also random I've ended up with unwinnable endgames (e.g. two knights). I don't play chess beyond knowing the rules, but this is a lot…

The random move is chosen by generating all legal moves, then choosing from them. This favors pieces with more legal moves, and thus tends to favor the queen the most. Compare with choosing from all pieces that have a legal move, then choosing a legal move for that piece, which would favor a lot of pawn motion, at least until they got themselves killed.

[deleted]

Re: Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

#94

Post by jedunnigan »

jerf wrote: post #36
joshvm wrote: post #27

Some interesting things happen here, the queens almost always seem to go first in my games (perhaps because of their freedom of movement they tend to end up in dangerous territory quickly). Also lots of pawn promotions make the mid-end games a lot more fun, although as the promotion is also random I've ended up with unwinnable endgames (e.g. two knights). I don't play chess beyond knowing the rules, but this is a lot…

The random move is chosen by generating all legal moves, then choosing from them. This favors pieces with more legal moves, and thus tends to favor the queen the most. Compare with choosing from all pieces that have a legal move, then choosing a legal move for that piece, which would favor a lot of pawn motion, at least until they got themselves killed.

To avoid the pawn favoritism you could first select a category of piece, then a specific piece of that category and then finally select a legal move for the piece in question. I think this would be the most even handed way to make the game more entropic.

Re: Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

#97

Post by Aardwolf »

Very original and fun :)

Near the end of the game the probability of something interesting happening decreases. Maybe in the end it could at least prune out some moves and choose randomly only amongst those that make pieces go closer to each other?

Re: Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

#98

Post by lmm »

omegaham wrote: post #64
hibikir wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just random vs random. Two extremely weak players will take hours to finish a won game, because the player with the major material advantage does not know how to win! When teaching kids, it's not uncommon to, after teaching them how to move all the pieces, spend time teaching them how to perform the most basic of mates: KQ vs K, KRR vs K, KR vs K. Only after those three are mastered we have a good opportunit…

I still don't know how to checkmate with two bishops. I mean, I've read how to do it, but if you stuck me in an endgame situation, I'd probably draw. Luckily, I have never actually had an endgame with a king and two bishops versus a king. Same thing with king, knight, and bishop.

The principle is the same as king and rook - the two bishops can trap the enemy king just like a rook can, and you can position your king opposite him and then advance one and force him back. You can work that one out reasonably well from first principles.

Bishop and knight is nontrivial to do in the 50 moves you have, but almost never comes up.

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