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The rise of fake engine noise

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#91

Post by yaeger »

mikepalmer wrote: post #79

Recently drove a Tesla Model S P85D... best thing about it is that the torque is immediate and silent. Not only can you blow other cars away at lights, you can do it casually, with no noise or fuss. Car is here; put car over there. It's like piloting a UFO.

Don't you see any problem with the silence in terms of safety?

There is a reason bicycles need to have a bell. Because these you also cannot hear when they approach you.

Although, it would be funny seeing a Tesla with a nice little bell and the tacked on law that you have to use it to alarm others in front of you that you are approaching. That'll be a sight to behold.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#92

Post by lloeki »

baddox wrote: post #82
MRSallee wrote: post #67

As a motor vehicle enthusiast, I think it's important to distinguish "real noises intentionally amplified by physical audio routing" and "electronic recordings or audio processing played through speakers." I don't object to routing engine noises to the cabin to allow for a loud-feeling vehicle (without necessarily being loud to people outside the car). To me, this isn't fake. The driver experiences real engine noise,…

Perhaps it's because I have no interest whatsoever in cars, but I have trouble seeing the distinction. If the idea is that certain sounds are merely the side effect of attributes which are themselves desired for reasons other than their sound, like a powerful engine, then it seems like any intentional design to produce or amplify those sounds are completely useless. What the driver wants is the actual attributes whic…

Playback recordings are a facsimile. Even in my '08 1.6L Swift Sport I can very well hear and feel the exhaust pipe through the floor as it responds to various throttle inputs.

Haptic feedback is just as important to me as the sound, and is part of what makes a car feel alive, playful, and eager. IOW, fun.

I'm totally not against electric cars, but it just seems wrong to me to make them appear like what they're not (i.e IC engines). I'd rather enjoy a Tesla Roadster in its brisk silence than with any added artefact, especially one trying to mimic an ancient, physically unrelated technology.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#93

Post by hvidgaard »

baddox wrote: post #82
MRSallee wrote: post #67

As a motor vehicle enthusiast, I think it's important to distinguish "real noises intentionally amplified by physical audio routing" and "electronic recordings or audio processing played through speakers." I don't object to routing engine noises to the cabin to allow for a loud-feeling vehicle (without necessarily being loud to people outside the car). To me, this isn't fake. The driver experiences real engine noise,…

Perhaps it's because I have no interest whatsoever in cars, but I have trouble seeing the distinction. If the idea is that certain sounds are merely the side effect of attributes which are themselves desired for reasons other than their sound, like a powerful engine, then it seems like any intentional design to produce or amplify those sounds are completely useless. What the driver wants is the actual attributes whic…

Think of it this way. Enhancing the engine sound is like optimizing the acoustics of a concert hall - you're still listening to nothing but the sounds from the orkestra. Artifically playing a prerecorded engine sound, is like sitting in a room full of speakers and amplifiers. You still hear the orkestra, but only a prerecorded version. The result might be the same, but there are subtle differences.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#94

Post by ferrari8608 »

aidenn0 wrote: post #90
mikepalmer wrote: post #79

Recently drove a Tesla Model S P85D... best thing about it is that the torque is immediate and silent. Not only can you blow other cars away at lights, you can do it casually, with no noise or fuss. Car is here; put car over there. It's like piloting a UFO.

The article makes it sound like that is going to have to go away, if laws are passed to make electrics play fake engine noise.

I just wonder, why does it have to be engine noise in particular? If I saw a Tesla, Leaf, Volt, etc. I wouldn't expect any engine or exhaust noise. Beeping, maybe.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#95

Post by Svip »

yaeger wrote: post #91
mikepalmer wrote: post #79

Recently drove a Tesla Model S P85D... best thing about it is that the torque is immediate and silent. Not only can you blow other cars away at lights, you can do it casually, with no noise or fuss. Car is here; put car over there. It's like piloting a UFO.

Don't you see any problem with the silence in terms of safety? There is a reason bicycles need to have a bell. Because these you also cannot hear when they approach you. Although, it would be funny seeing a Tesla with a nice little bell and the tacked on law that you have to use it to alarm others in front of you that you are approaching. That'll be a sight to behold.

I was once almost hit by a Tesla, because I didn't hear it coming. Fortunately, the driver noticed I wasn't aware of his presence and slowed down.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#96

Post by WalterBright »

ars wrote: post #48

Am I the only one that associates loud noise with a weak engine? To me a powerful car just has an acceleration whine, and that's all. It's like a rocket exhaust: the "wilder" it is the weaker it is. A powerful, well tuned, rocket has a very sharp, and clean (i.e. not noisy) flame. Same with a car - if it's making a lot of noise, it's poorly tuned or designed.

> Am I the only one that associates loud noise with a weak engine?

Evidently you haven't been to a top fuel drag race!

Most definitely, the more power, the more noise. Top fuel is so loud it is like being punched in the chest.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#97

Post by Svip »

ferrari8608 wrote: post #94
aidenn0 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article makes it sound like that is going to have to go away, if laws are passed to make electrics play fake engine noise.

I just wonder, why does it have to be engine noise in particular? If I saw a Tesla, Leaf, Volt, etc. I wouldn't expect any engine or exhaust noise. Beeping, maybe.

Beeping? Like a lorry backing up? Even a low pitch beeping would become annoying pretty quickly. It should just be a sort of hum.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#98

Post by lloeki »

saosebastiao wrote: post #65
reustle wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just you. It's also other people who don't have much experience with engine performance. Quieter mufflers restrict more airflow, something you don't want to do when you're trying to pass more fuel through a small engine.

I have plenty of experience with engine performance, and s/he was absolutely correct. An overly loud engine is is opening its valves too early or closing too late, and it can only be made quieter by restrictive mufflers. More modern and efficient engine designs, enabled by technologies such as variable valve timing, are quieter out of the valves because they convert more energy into motion instead of sound. Being qui…

The most dramatic example is VTEC, especially before variable cam phasing.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#99

Post by WalterBright »

jacquesm wrote: post #64
bri3d wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of this noise is pumped into the car (to make the consumer happy), not out of the car. The two most common systems in use today are the car stereo (either amplifying the real engine's sound or by simply synchronizing a synthesis mechanism to the engine's load conditions) or a "sound pipe" which runs from the engine's air intake into the cabin ventilation system. This article strangely managed to conflate the two…

If my car would make less noise I'd be happy. It totally baffles me why someone would want more useless noise in their lives rather than less if that's an option. Music is beautiful, artificial engine noise is just that: noise.

The sound of an approaching Merlin V12 at full throttle is the most thrilling sound in the world.

http://www.amazon.com/Sigh-Merlin-Spitfire-Alex-Henshaw/dp/0...

"For anyone who has heard a Merlin engine on any aircraft, you will understand the title."

No stereo has ever been able to reproduce that sound.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#100

Post by shin_lao »

ars wrote: post #48

Am I the only one that associates loud noise with a weak engine? To me a powerful car just has an acceleration whine, and that's all. It's like a rocket exhaust: the "wilder" it is the weaker it is. A powerful, well tuned, rocket has a very sharp, and clean (i.e. not noisy) flame. Same with a car - if it's making a lot of noise, it's poorly tuned or designed.

Bigger engines are noisier because more "explosions happen inside" (to simplify). A bigger engine isn't necessarily more powerful than a smaller one, but it's a hint.
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