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Hardware startups should consider local manufacturing

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Re: Hardware startups should consider local manufacturing

#91
post #58
post #50

I agree that manufacturing in-house is great for hardware startups. I've seen it work for several. The insight they gain into the details of design, and the speed they can iterate at, more than make up for higher local labor costs.

hey, author here. we're thinking about sharing stories about hardware startups that decided for the local manufacturing route including price differences, manufacturing tips, gm contacts, etc. If somebody is interested or wants to get involved, please send me an email: tobias@senic.com

I'm not from http://schiit.com/ but they also went with local manufacturing route and their prices are quite competitive.

Re: Hardware startups should consider local manufacturing

#92
post #4

I have backed a half dozen Kickstarters and Indigogos that were hardware based (consumer electronics) and chose to manufacture in China. Seeing the time and money they spend in order to fly someone over to China to troubleshoot and issue with manufacturing or testing has left me wondering - why do small startups choose to manufacture in China to begin with? > Is it because they assume that despite the initial cost ov…

The idea that people choose to go to China because it is cheaper is a bit naive. Yes, of course, once you are at scale (not huge, but making thousands of units) China can be cheaper. Why do smart entrepreneurs go to China then?

The ecosystem is there, not here.

If I handed you a bill of materials for a medium complexity product with, say, 250 components and asked you to source them in both the US and China you'd see exactly what I am talking about.

China is now setup with these "manufacturing cities" where everything you might need for a typical consumer product is in close proximity, easy to find and, yes, cost effective. Component manufacturers have huge presence in China in order to facilitate the process. In the US you are exposed to layers of separation and profit-making between you and the component maker. I should also mention that there are components you simply can't get here.

Oh, yes, there's the other reality: Your product is likely to use parts made in China. For the privilege of manufacturing in the US you get to pay the extra cost of shipping, warehousing, handling, supporting and managing the components in a US-based channel of distribution.

Then there's the issue of worker and business culture. Work in China and you'll quickly learn nearly everyone is willing to jump when you say jump. They simply want to get the job done. The US, in sharp contrast, can be surreal at times. For example, it isn't uncommon to send out RFQ's and get no response whatsoever. A couple of years ago I sent out 50 RFQ's to US machine shops for some metal parts. I got around five responses. In China shops would be tripping over each other to get you a quote.

This and other reasons is why it can be comical to hear politicians at all levels repeat the "get manufacturing jobs back" meme. It's ridiculous. This would require a cultural, legislative, labor law and ecosystem shift of such massive scale that it is just about impossible.

No, entrepreneurs don't go to China because it's cheaper. The go there because they need to get their work done efficiently and, yes, at a good price. And all the necessary conditions to meet these goals exist in China, not in Europe and certainly not in the US.

Re: Hardware startups should consider local manufacturing

#93
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why do small startups choose to manufacture in China to begin with? Poor pricing decisions. Most Kickstarters can't get people to fund "Thingit X" if it costs over $100. Hell, I'd be hard pressed to put a Beaglebone+wacky I/O thingy+software in a case and shove it out at a profit at $100. And I think I know what I'm doing after a couple decades at this. And, electronics is NEVER the problem for me. I can generally…

The real solution is to make sure your product is above $100 (preferably significantly) so you can actually 3D print the required plastics (which will be around $10 per part). Now, you can tune your plastic parts and you don't have the NRE of molds. After you have everything tuned and have some volume, THEN you can cut a mold. And, you may never cut a mold--you can print over a thousand parts at $10 per part for $10K…

> Do you have a favorite 3D printer for small instrument/device cases? Or do you outsource that work to someone who does?

Outsource. I want a useful 3D printer with materials like nylon, not a MakerBot. There should be people around in any reasonably sized city. I believe that some of the Solidworks resellers now do 3D printing as a service.

One thing that people continue to underestimate are silicone molds. 3D print the positive--create a silicone negative mold from the 3D positive. Now you can make your own parts out of liquid silicone rubber--some durometers of which are almost as hard as some plastics.

Yes, this is incredibly messy, time consuming work, but if you have more time and/or hands than money, it's not a bad choice.

> Also, something I've never understood about injection molding is why the hobbyist-accessible CNC revolution of the past 10 years or so hasn't reduced the cost of creating molds.

Because no injection molder wants to deal with people producing I don't even need a CNC machine to create a metal mold--people did do this by hand for a whole lot of years. However, even if I could produce the mold for free, the molder doesn't want to waste the time on me.

For that reason, practically every successful electronics component producing company has both a machine shop and an injection molding machine on site. Both of them tend to sit idle 90+% of the time, but every time they get used, they save $50,000.

Re: Hardware startups should consider local manufacturing

#94
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're basically saying that laser cutting and CNC stitching - operations performed by robots based on files uploaded by computers - are done better in China than here. Not done better. They're not done here AT ALL . That's a big difference.

That's a bold claim. Laser cutting and CNC stitching are not done "here" which I guess is outside China, at all, by anyone?

In the US, pretty much.

There are boutiques that cater to the very high-end crowd, but they're few and far between.

If you want units of 100's, that just isn't going to happen. It's simple economics--if you want 100K units, you have more than enough incentive to go to China. If you want 100's of units, you're either too small and will go bankrupt or you will change over to China next round because you have the volume. So, you don't get future work, and you tie up one of my machines.

It's very hard to explain to people that the economics of automation dictate that a machine should either be operated nearly 100% or 0%. 100% is the obvious production mode. 0% is the non-obvious one. You want 0% because you need to be ready for when you get the 100% order. The opportunity cost of not getting the 100% order due to lack of capacity, machine needing maintenance, etc. far exceeds the profit you would make on that order for 100 units.

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