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Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

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Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#91
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you start from such a low base, there is enormous room for growth. The question is what can they export? Cigars? Medical personnel?

One of the lasting myths emerging from American rhetoric is that Cuba is starting from a low base. In fact the per capita GDP (as well as quality of life) is approximately on par with Panama and far exceeds the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Jamaica, and Nicaragua. Tourism will remain the major source of foreign currency, but I think this change will lead to further development in pharmaceuticals and telecom.

Cubans enjoy greater economic and medical security under socialism than their counterparts in capitalist neighboring countries, even without subsidies from Russia and even with a strict embargo with the US.

The country is surprisingly politically free for a tiny nation facing an existential threat from a hostile super power that has invaded, attempted to assassinate it's leader, and funded militants dead set on violent revolution for decades.

American leadership immediately resorted to torture and illegal domestic surveillance when faced with the loss of two skyscrapers and 3,000 lives from an enemy that is more like an annoying gnat than an existential threat.

Cuba is a success story for socialism, and that is why US policy has sought to punish it, and to make it fail. The US did not want a successful socialist nation in it's sphere of influence, it gives the other nations subject to the Monroe doctrine ideas.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, Cuba's no longer a vassal state. I suspect they have little interest in hosting Russian nuclear missiles, and I suspect the US would be more than happy to help them resist a Russian effort to restore the Cold War situation.

They do have an interest in hosting a re-opened Russian spy facility, just this summer. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/16/russia-reopenin...

And it cost them forgiveness of 90% of Cuba's debts. I doubt the other 10% will cover hosting nuclear missiles, especially if Cuba's at the point where they're interested in better relations with the US.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#93
post #83
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Helms–Burton Act dictates that any firm that does trade with Cuba can't trade with the US. So no trade for Cuba, then.

Presidents Clinton and Bush both waived that part law, and Canada, Mexico, and the EU all don't recognize it. So I'm not sure it has had any real impact other than antagonizing US allies, and generating some private lawsuits.

Some parts of it, like agriculture and medicine, have been relaxed, but most of it still stands. And what does it matter if the EU doesn't recognize it? E.g. Volkswagen better recognize it or Volkswagen will lose all sales in the US.

Is it plausible that Cubans would really be driving oldsmobiles if they had access to European or Asian cars? That's the only evidence you really need to understand that the embargo is, in practice, global.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guantanamo Bay isn't US soil, it's Cuban soil indefinitely leased to the US for the purpose of maintaining a naval base. (The concentration camp is a side benefit, constructed to evade laws against building concentration camps on American soil.)

Indefinitely leased is nitpicking but at least you got to say concentration camp twice.

It's not nitpicking when it is what provides the legal foundation for Gitmo in the first place.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#95
post #87

What are we going to do about all the trademark conflicts? US rum and cigar companies stole the brand names of famous Cuban companies, because they knew they could get away with it. To see what I mean, Ctrl-F dueling on http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cigar_brands

??

From the Bacardi wikipedia:

"Ospina describes how the Bacardi family and Company left Cuba after the Castro regime confiscated the Company’s Cuban assets on 15 October 1960; in particular, in nationalizing and banning all private property on the island as well as all bank accounts. However, due to concerns over the previous Cuban leader Fulgencio Batista the company had started foreign branches a few years prior to the revolution; the Company moved the ownership of the Company's trademarks, assets and proprietary formulas out of the country to the Bahamas prior to the revolution as well as constructing plants in Puerto Rico and Mexico after Prohibition to save import taxes for rum being imported to the US. This helped the company survive after the communist government confiscated without compensation all Bacardi assets in the country."

"More recently, Bacardi lawyers were influential in the drafting of the 1996 Helms-Burton Act which sought to extend the scope of the United States embargo against Cuba. In 1999, Otto Reich, a lobbyist in Washington on behalf of Bacardi, drafted section 211 of the Omnibus Consolidated and Emergency Appropriations Act, FY1999 (Pub.L. 105–277), a bill that became known as the Bacardi Act. Section 211 denied trademark protection to products of Cuban businesses expropriated after the Cuban revolution, a provision keenly sought by Bacardi. The act was aimed primarily at the Havana Club brand in the US. The brand was created by the José Arechabala company and confiscated without compensation in the Cuban revolution. The Havana Club trademark had been registered by the Cuban government in the United States without permission of the rightful owners. The new law invalidated the trademark registration. Section 211 has been challenged unsuccessfully by the Cuban government and the European Union in US courts; however, the act has been ruled illegal by the WTO (August 2001). The US Congress has yet to re-examine the matter."

Basically, Cuba stole some brands after the revolution, so the U.S. said "fuck you, you can't trademark a brand you stole from its rightful owners". The EU and WTO have a problem with that, but luckily the U.S. has never given a shit what the EU or WTO says.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#96
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might have been your impression, coming straight from Canada. I visited Cuba a decade ago, having traveled in Latin America for > 1 year. I can't say that Cuba seemed to be worse off than many of these other countries.

This is true as well. I've seen worse conditions in both Costa Rica (a relatively successful country) and El Salvador.

exactly. The Latin America is filled with countries there people are poor and powerless and oppressed by their government and non-government organizations (criminal and drug cartels, guerrillas, left and right paramilitaries, etc...) As Cuba was an ally of USSR such policies were reasonable back then. The USSR had disappeared 23 years ago though...

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#97
post #93
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presidents Clinton and Bush both waived that part law, and Canada, Mexico, and the EU all don't recognize it. So I'm not sure it has had any real impact other than antagonizing US allies, and generating some private lawsuits.

Some parts of it, like agriculture and medicine, have been relaxed, but most of it still stands. And what does it matter if the EU doesn't recognize it? E.g. Volkswagen better recognize it or Volkswagen will lose all sales in the US. Is it plausible that Cubans would really be driving oldsmobiles if they had access to European or Asian cars? That's the only evidence you really need to understand that the embargo is,…

Is it plausible that Cubans would really be driving oldsmobiles if they had access to European or Asian cars?

It sounds like the restrictions on cars comes from the Cuban gov't, not the embargo.

Until a few weeks ago, there was no way to legally transfer ownership of a vehicle like this. The only cars that could be freely bought and sold were those built before 1959, when Fidel Castro came to power. That's why there are still nearly 60,000 classic cars on Cuba's streets, but few late-model Hondas. Bringing in a new car requires special government permission and a 100 percent import tax...[1]

[1]http://www.npr.org/2011/10/31/141858419/in-cuba-a-used-car-i...

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#98
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note: Americans could previously go there; you just couldn't go directly from America.

Americans could previously go there, they just couldn't spend money there and no airlines offered flights from the US.

I think you will find US dollars (cash) accepted quite readily in Cuba.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#99
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one thing I don't understand is how the US embargo is to blame for the lackluster Cuban economy. Cuba is free to trade with most Western countries including the EU and Canada. How much of the economic misery is due to the Castro government and how much is due to the US embargo?

The US embargo -- and the palpable external target it presents -- is a major source of the longevity of the Castro regime (and the longevity of the regime itself motivates the maintenance of the embargo), so in a very real sense all of the misery resulting from the regime also can be blamed on the embargo, and vice versa. They aren't independent factors.

I don't disagree. The Castros have been helped plenty by the embargo by keeping public distain focused on the US rather than their own government's policies.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#100
post #30

The timing seems really clever here. The USA and OPEC flood the market with oil (literally), crashing prices and sending the Ruble into a spiral. Just as Cuba starts to worry about Russian support going forward, the USA swoops in to provide some economic bracing.

Literally?

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