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How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management

lizthedeveloper.com

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Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management

#91

Post by jules »

zobzu wrote: post #14

One thing that always fails with that is that management always get more money. Wanna be a tech leader paid 150k? (fancy title, +- same salary as before) Or wanna be a director paid 250k? (fancier title, way bigger salary) Kinda difficult not to choose the "free tesla every year" isn't it? Plus.. the directory job is generally going to mean a more relaxed job (albeit less interesting for an engineer maybe, but that's…

Yes, the only way around this is to become an independent consultant or start your own company.

Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management

#92

Post by fit2rule »

dmfdmf wrote: post #52
icyfenix wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the sentiment I was going for - people who want to stay engineers should be compensated for their badassery, and respected for it, which is usually all they want. That right there is exactly the "power to say No" I was talking about. And how do you know if an engineer wants to stay an engineer or not? By asking them.

I don't want to disparage the whole management class but I think part of it is that manager types don't really get the motivation to solve problems. They think that if someone doesn't have a manager telling them what to do then they won't do anything, but that is just psychological projection. Fred was one of the happiest (and busiest) guys at this company and many strived to achieve his status. Regarding respect; Af…

This is the problem: manager types

There is no such thing, it is an absurd invention.

There is management - when that occurs, and only after, do you have a manager.

Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management

#93

Post by ZenoArrow »

Perhaps more companies would benefit research teams, who work on the next generation of products with less management interference. Being promoted to the research team could be a useful incentive to keeping talented engineers around. If they do stick around, the maintenance team could still consult the research team about the previous system they built.

Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management

#94

Post by pluma »

frozenport wrote: post #82
jshen wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most obvious flaw, a programmer is only worth 5.7 times their 1999 salary if their work is generating 5.7 times as much revenue as it would have in 1999. I see no evidence that this is the case. If it were the case, and the vast majority of programmers are earning 1/6 of what their work is worth, then there is a huge opportunity that you can exploit to get rich. Go for it, and let us know how it works out.

It's even worse because you might code up a storm and not add any value. You might work a dead project and only loose the company money. I have seen many a John Henry try to save a project from technical failure when it was a business failure.

For those not familiar with American folklore: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Henry_%28folklore%29

Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management

#95

Post by netcan »

fein wrote: post #3

For me its pretty simple: Pay me what I'm worth. None of this managerial shite, just dollars. I will be happy.

There is an underlying assumption to a lot if this thread that it's the person that is "worth" an amount. But, worth depends on what you do and price depends on how hard it is to find someone else to do it.

Managers are worth a lot and the difference between the best option and the second best one is greater, at least that's what the market seems to be saying. You are worth x doing X job and y doing Y job. It may also be true that you are worth more to employer x than y.

It's ok to make decisions not solely based on price.

Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management

#96

Post by hell-ban-me »

erikb wrote: post #87
zobzu wrote: post #14

One thing that always fails with that is that management always get more money. Wanna be a tech leader paid 150k? (fancy title, +- same salary as before) Or wanna be a director paid 250k? (fancier title, way bigger salary) Kinda difficult not to choose the "free tesla every year" isn't it? Plus.. the directory job is generally going to mean a more relaxed job (albeit less interesting for an engineer maybe, but that's…

I absolutely dig the money argument. A bad junior manager will probably make much more money than a jedi developer. Therefore many people choose to be a bad manager instead of a happy, good, developer.

Wow, where do you guys come from? At my current gig, as a contract engineer I make two times more than the department director, who is 4 levels up in the hyerarhy.

Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management

#97

Post by petercooper »

michaelochurch wrote: post #15
jshen wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you worth?

http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2014/05/24/whats-a-mid-c...

I don't disagree with the initial premise of the article, but I think it misses that while developers have become substantially more productive, it has also become substantially easier to be a productive developer which has caused the value to maintain its current equilibrium.

Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management

#98

Post by hell-ban-me »

goodreel wrote: post #7
fein wrote: post #3

For me its pretty simple: Pay me what I'm worth. None of this managerial shite, just dollars. I will be happy.

That's only simple in a fictional world where everybody agrees on what you're worth.

Hm, Best Korea is real.

Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management

#99

Post by [deleted] »

peteretep wrote: post #34
zobzu wrote: post #14

One thing that always fails with that is that management always get more money. Wanna be a tech leader paid 150k? (fancy title, +- same salary as before) Or wanna be a director paid 250k? (fancier title, way bigger salary) Kinda difficult not to choose the "free tesla every year" isn't it? Plus.. the directory job is generally going to mean a more relaxed job (albeit less interesting for an engineer maybe, but that's…

> Plus.. the director job is generally going to mean a > more relaxed job If you believe responsibility over people, budgets, liabilities and policy is less stressful than responsibility over systems, you're high. As a programmer, let me tell you: people who have only ever done programming for a career have no clue how relatively easy they have it.

[deleted]

Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management

#100

Post by jnbiche »

dmfdmf wrote: post #54
choppaface wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing!! Like this story a lot better than the linked blog article. A positive example of real evidence is so much more effective than an essay of meta.

I am glad you liked it. I know HN doesn't like the supposedly contentless "thanks for sharing" type of comments but I appreciate it and think it is important to express such sentiments. In fact, about half way in to writing my comment I almost deleted it -- thinking no one would really care. I am glad I was wrong and that I completed it.

I should add that HN doesn't like brief, content-free "+1" or "this" comments, but a few sentences explaining why you liked a comment, and why it was exceptional in some ways, is almost never a problem, and are often greatly appreciated.

For example, you'll note that choppaface's comment has not been downvoted below 0, and probably has a few upvotes.

By the way, I also very much enjoyed your comment.

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