For one optimistic moment there, I thought this was going to be about, you know, ethics. Like how Uber abuses its drivers, or how it demeans women, or how it threatens journalists. But no, "ethically challenged" means they don't break the rules successfully enough.
Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]
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Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Whether this is true or not isn't exactly 'known' There are historic facts for that. Just google "palantir hbgary" and enjoy. >some of my former TA's and people that I'd classify as highly ethical work there now ethical people have been through history participating in evil things, especially in engineering roles. It is peculiar ability of human brain to not notice the dirty smell when it would be very inconvenient…
Yeah, I know about hbgary. They definitely have a tainted public perception - I just question the extent to which people seem to vilify them. Regarding ethics - absolutely. It's also harder to notice when you're being paid quite a bit. It's a pity our profession doesn't have some explicit oaths along the lines of the Hippocratic oath. While it wouldn't stop anyone out to willfully do evil, it might at least make our…
> I just question the extent to which people seem to vilify them.
The government needs software like Palantir. So I think they're on par with say Lockheed.
Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]
#93OK, so it's obviously a little transparent of Thiel to say that Uber [a competitor to Lyft, a company in which he has invested] is "on the cusp" of going too far, but Airbnb [another company in which he has invested] has "a different feel" and is OK. But it's also a little ironic that the champion of "Competition is for losers", who says that monopolies can be a good thing for society [0], is against Uber trying thei…
I watched that presentation and he really wasn't championing monopolies in the sense of no internet or water competition, or even really from a consumer standpoint. He was talking about positioning your company so that you aren't really competing with anyone else, either because you are doing something different, or your product is orders of magnitude better (first iPhone) so you don't realistically have competition.
Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't think it's fair to say that Silicon Valley has a misogyny problem Okay, let's flip it then. What's the canary? What are signs that an industry/organization/culture has a misogyny problem? I'd honestly love to see someone posit a reasonable litmus test that the Valley(slash-our-industry) doesn't qualify for.
Let's flip it again; what are signs that various female dominated occupations have a misandry problem in the same fashion? The thing we were just discussing with avions de chasses, why is that intrinsically misogynistic while the similarly themed ManServant startup is not intrinsically misandrist? Why are the attacks on the former a blaring cacophony and the attacks on the latter practically non-existent? I don't thi…
Because manservants is just another instance of an actual escort service where the audience is "people who want an escort service", and the avions de chasse is the insertion of an escort service into an otherwise everyday service that has an audience of people who (i suspect) mostly aren't interested in an escort service. Its similar to how a billboard that is OK in the red light district won't be acceptable in the main street or the suburbs.
Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let's flip it again; what are signs that various female dominated occupations have a misandry problem in the same fashion? The thing we were just discussing with avions de chasses, why is that intrinsically misogynistic while the similarly themed ManServant startup is not intrinsically misandrist? Why are the attacks on the former a blaring cacophony and the attacks on the latter practically non-existent? I don't thi…
Because manservants is just another instance of an actual escort service where the audience is "people who want an escort service", and the avions de chasse is the insertion of an escort service into an otherwise everyday service that has an audience of people who (i suspect) mostly aren't interested in an escort service. Its similar to how a billboard that is OK in the red light district won't be acceptable in the m…
Manservants is explicitly not an escort service (http://www.citylab.com/work/2014/07/the-manservants-service-...) (http://manservants.co/become-a-manservant.html), though. In both instances it's simply trading on the sexual market value of men or women (just because it's not sex doesn't mean the sexual market value of the person in question isn't relevant, see booth babes, ad et al). If you consider this to be misogynistic or misandrist in either instance, it ought to be in both.
Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]
#96Notice the language here. He doesn't seem, at least from my reading, to be chastising Uber for doing things that are morally wrong. He's instead chastising them for doing morally wrong things and not pulling it off. For example: "Sometimes the people who break the rules win and sometimes they push it too far," implying that Uber could be doing wrong things in some more correct way and continue to thrive, and that the…
Not all rules are ethical. I believe Uber is breaking a few of the ones that are.
Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]
#97Notice the language here. He doesn't seem, at least from my reading, to be chastising Uber for doing things that are morally wrong. He's instead chastising them for doing morally wrong things and not pulling it off. For example: "Sometimes the people who break the rules win and sometimes they push it too far," implying that Uber could be doing wrong things in some more correct way and continue to thrive, and that the…
Almost every notable tech company has at least one unethical story behind it. Steve Jobs and Woz selling blue boxes to fund Apple is probably the most famous.
Look at the morality between your comparison. Jobs/Woz wanted to defraud a monolithic monopoly (Ma Bell) while Uber is talking about getting back at journalists (mind you I have no naive view of "reporters" and their employers).
Sounds pretty distinct to me - both are rules broken, just one is about silencing investigation and the other is about stealing from the rich.
Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because manservants is just another instance of an actual escort service where the audience is "people who want an escort service", and the avions de chasse is the insertion of an escort service into an otherwise everyday service that has an audience of people who (i suspect) mostly aren't interested in an escort service. Its similar to how a billboard that is OK in the red light district won't be acceptable in the m…
Manservants is explicitly not an escort service ( http://www.citylab.com/work/2014/07/the-manservants-service-... ) ( http://manservants.co/become-a-manservant.html ), though. In both instances it's simply trading on the sexual market value of men or women (just because it's not sex doesn't mean the sexual market value of the person in question isn't relevant, see booth babes, ad et al). If you consider this to be mi…
Sure, I forgot the non-escort bit - although as you say, it is definitely about sexual attraction. However the defining point I made was that ManServants is explicitly joining that market of sexual market value, but Uber is adding that service to their existing commodity service which did not express interest in it. I consider it unnecessarily sexual to do the latter, but not the former.I consider it misogynist because they have looked at a large mixed gender audience and decided to cater to the sexual desires of the men in it. If you can point out the existing mixed gender non sexual audience that ManServants has started pushing their product on, I might consider it comparable.
Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]
#99"The remarks attributed to me ... do not reflect my actual views and have no relation to the company's views or approach," Michael later said. "They were wrong no matter the circumstance and I regret them."
Uber also practiced ordering and canceling rides with a competitor (Gett) in order to recruit their drivers (and possibly to act as a denial of service attack). This was discovered and the company disavowed the practice as that of a rogue group of employees.
... And then later in the year was caught doing it again, except this time to Lyft.
At this point their public statements on what their company's views or approaches are is entirely useless. Uber has proven multiple times that their statements aren't just typical PR spin, but tread directly into bald-faced lies.