Teacher spends two days as a student and is shocked at what she learns • Hacker News Board

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student and is shocked at what she learns

#91

Post by vacri » Sun, Oct 26, 2014, 6:43 AM UTC

hnriot wrote: post #73

vacri wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People wonder why high school aged students are unruly, unpleasant, and filled with deep negative emotions (anger, disdain, need-to-rebel) They don't wonder it at all; it's not some mystery solved by sitting in a classroom. Adolescents, as a demographic, have always been known to be raging pits of hormones with mood swings and strong passions. Items 1 and 3 are common in the working world, and there's a few jobs out…

this is a bit condescending to teens to write them off as that. Biologically we are not programmed to sit in a classroom, teenage girls are programmed by evolution to do something not too dissimilar to HS (show off their new found sexuality and attract a mate), boys on the other hand are better suited to hitting stuff with sticks. That's exactly the kind of mate you want if you're a teenage girl, someone who can go o…

Evolution is not sentient, and doesn't 'design' or 'plan' or 'program'. It's merely the name for a process, like 'the water cycle' or 'the bessemer process'. Evolution can result in things, like any process, but it doesn't design, and it's wrong to characterise it this way.

This being said, if you're looking to the behaviour of primitives, the male-heavy roles were not 'war', but 'hunt'. And no, we're not all driven by sex - some of us are driven heavily, others driven lightly, and others still are asexual. And even those who are heavily driven by sex find time for other things in their life.

Anyway, it's ironic that you ping me for 'writing them off' (I don't see where I do that, seriously), but then turn around and say that they're only doing what 'evolution planned for them' - particularly your stated role for what teenage girls should be doing.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student and is shocked at what she learns

#92

Post by jemfinch » Sun, Oct 26, 2014, 6:45 AM UTC

derekp7 wrote: post #5

Why is this so surprising? Wasn't every teacher a high school student at some point? Is the experience so traumatic that they completely forget what the schedule was like once they become teachers themselves?

I have three kids: a five year old, a three year old, and an infant. They all cry when they get tired. I did too, when I was their age. Now, as an adult, I know that they're only crying because they're tired. But they, as children, aren't self-aware enough to realize that. Neither was I, when I was their age.

When I was in high school, I was restless, but I didn't realize it was because I needed some physical activity. I was bored, but I didn't realize that sitting passively for 90% of the day wasn't "normal". I felt like a nuisance, but I didn't realize that I shouldn't.

Every teacher was a high school student at some point, but the memory they formed were not formed with the self-awareness they possess as adults. Re-experiencing the same conditions a decade or two later is enlightening precisely because you understand yourself so much better.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student and is shocked at what she learns

#93

Post by vacri » Sun, Oct 26, 2014, 6:50 AM UTC

nilkn wrote: post #79

pyre wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I sit in an $800+ chair, with a desk with more space than I need, next to a huge window. I can get up anytime I want and go for a walk or break. Truly a representative case!

It's pretty representative of tons of professional workers I know from many industries and extremely typical in technology companies. Most high quality office chairs are pretty expensive; the Aeron chair that is used at so many tech companies is easily in that price range, depending on where you buy it (and in what quantity). Maybe the only thing that's slightly unusual is the window. If your company is not providing…

So your rejoinder to my point is "professionals have nice working conditions"? If so, perhaps go visit a call centre. I've worked in one where the floor staff had less than a meter of desk space each. Or clerks in a crappy government department. Or try being a taxi driver. Professionals also have a nice salary that keeps their interest; rarely is it below median wage. These shitty places don't have a lot of acting out, and in my experience, most of those who do act out are either still in adolescence or not long out of it.

Seriously, the reason why the adolescent demographic shows 'anger, disdain, and need-to-rebel' is not going to be solved by giving them aeron chairs and free reign to use the toilet. Crappy chairs in high school don't help, but to imply that they're the cause of adolescent acting out? It makes me wonder how far removed from your own adolescent experience you are, not to mention how many other demographics you're thinking of.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student and is shocked at what she learns

#94

Post by visarga » Sun, Oct 26, 2014, 6:56 AM UTC

treehau5 wrote: post #70

Sambdala wrote: post #13

I remember high school. During class I hid whatever book I actually wanted to read at the time inside the class book and drowned out the teacher. If homework was worth >10% of the total grade for the class (so that you couldn't get an A from tests/quizzes alone), I would copy the homework from someone else the period before. Tests & quizzes are so gameable it's a complete joke. Standardized tests even more so. Withou…

I can relate to this so much it's not even funny. Don't let your fear of failure get in the way. I currently struggle with the same -- applying myself to a difficult task. Staying focused longer than 10 minutes at a time was difficult -- so difficult I was even suspicious I may of had adult ADHD. Turns out that I don't. What I have is the fear of failing and rejection. The fear of exposing my weaknesses to others, an…

> Staying focused longer than 10 minutes at a time was difficult

I found an unexpected solution in working with someone else - that is - not working alone on the project. The more social interaction is involved, the less I am affected by procrastination. You have to make yourself visible and accountable to other people, to feel shame if you slack off, to feel energized when you make progress and then discuss it with them. In other words, you need to have a person witnessing you as you work.

Think back - in school and while being employed you always had a teacher or boss to witness your work, you had colleagues, but when you are alone with a project, then all this social stabilizing effect is gone.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student and is shocked at what she learns

#95

Post by wmt » Sun, Oct 26, 2014, 7:08 AM UTC

intopieces wrote: post #32

bcaine wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it's near impossible for a student to pay attention during longer classes. I think you're trying to measure accomplishing things by the amount of material you work through during a given class, instead of by the amount of information the student actually absorbs during that time. That seemed to be one of the main points in the article, just getting through material was a terrible way to look at cl…

>The problem is that it's near impossible for a student to pay attention during longer classes. Impossible seems a bit harsh. The situation could certainly be improved, and it might certainly be improved if the instructor has more time to engage in students as individuals, which can't be done much in a short period system (this was my main complaint with HS and why I never took a huge lecture course). I do agree that…

The problem is not the engagement as much as trying to sit and pay attention for 90 minutes. You will way better results by having a 5-15 minute break every 45 minutes.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student and is shocked at what she learns

#96

Post by visarga » Sun, Oct 26, 2014, 7:10 AM UTC

bane wrote: post #51

I found this interesting. I worked for a few years teaching technical subjects to mid-career adults and ended up adopting an educational theory not too dissimilar to the author, but for mostly different reasons. Previous discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8251569 I remember high school very well, and it was a pretty torturous experience. If you could design an educational program that was almost guarante…

Maybe schools should use a system like Spaced Repetition (or Anki) that integrates in an intelligent way the repetition of old material with learning new things. It works very well for foreign languages, but could be adapted to other subjects.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student and is shocked at what she learns

#97

Post by rumcajz » Sun, Oct 26, 2014, 7:15 AM UTC

vacri wrote: post #41

folz wrote: post #4

Saved you a click (from the top comment the last time this was posted): The three points from the article: > [1] Students sit all day, and sitting is exhausting. > [2] High School students are sitting passively and listening during approximately 90% of their classes. > [3] You feel a little bit like a nuisance all day long. People wonder why high school aged students are unruly, unpleasant, and filled with deep negat…

People wonder why high school aged students are unruly, unpleasant, and filled with deep negative emotions (anger, disdain, need-to-rebel) They don't wonder it at all; it's not some mystery solved by sitting in a classroom. Adolescents, as a demographic, have always been known to be raging pits of hormones with mood swings and strong passions. Items 1 and 3 are common in the working world, and there's a few jobs out…

> Adolescents, as a demographic, have always been known to be raging pits of hormones with mood swings and strong passions.

The adolescents in middle ages were treated as adults and they have behaved so. There was also no equivalent to modern schooling back then.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student and is shocked at what she learns

#98

Post by dunder » Sun, Oct 26, 2014, 7:22 AM UTC

bsilvereagle wrote: post #77

yummyfajitas wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standardized tests even more so. Without any actual learning from the class itself, you can generally come close to ace'ing most high school tests by being moderately intelligent. How do you do this? I mean if a test asks you to solve 3x^2+5+2x=7, how do you solve it without know the quadratic formula or some such? There is a difference between gaming a test (in the sense of not knowing the material, but still passin…

> Standardized tests even more so Standardized tests are almost always multiple choice. So, given four (or five) possible answers for x, plug them all in and see which one equals 7. That's arguably faster than using the quadratic formula to solve the problem.

So in the US, math tests are multiple choice AND teachers don't even require the student to write down the process by which they've come to the conclusion?

Both of those seem unusual to me and I don't see how that method could possibly be beneficial in assessing knowledge.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student and is shocked at what she learns

#99

Post by pmontra » Sun, Oct 26, 2014, 7:23 AM UTC

bsilvereagle wrote: post #77

yummyfajitas wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standardized tests even more so. Without any actual learning from the class itself, you can generally come close to ace'ing most high school tests by being moderately intelligent. How do you do this? I mean if a test asks you to solve 3x^2+5+2x=7, how do you solve it without know the quadratic formula or some such? There is a difference between gaming a test (in the sense of not knowing the material, but still passin…

> Standardized tests even more so Standardized tests are almost always multiple choice. So, given four (or five) possible answers for x, plug them all in and see which one equals 7. That's arguably faster than using the quadratic formula to solve the problem.

Interesting tests. How do they prepare for the real world, where the answers are to be found and not given?

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student and is shocked at what she learns

#100

Post by pyre » Sun, Oct 26, 2014, 7:33 AM UTC

nilkn wrote: post #79

pyre wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I sit in an $800+ chair, with a desk with more space than I need, next to a huge window. I can get up anytime I want and go for a walk or break. Truly a representative case!

It's pretty representative of tons of professional workers I know from many industries and extremely typical in technology companies. Most high quality office chairs are pretty expensive; the Aeron chair that is used at so many tech companies is easily in that price range, depending on where you buy it (and in what quantity). Maybe the only thing that's slightly unusual is the window. If your company is not providing…

Up-thread there was a comparison from office workers to high school students. Do you really think that the "average office worker" has a chair (in the price-range of an Aeron), an office with a view, and a flexible schedule?