[deleted]
Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free
91–100 of 122 posts
Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free
#92[deleted]
Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
The reason you are getting downvoted (I believe) is that you are posing a false dilemma.[1] It is not the case that Apple is most likely going to leave Swift closed source based on the evidence that we've seen. ALL the evidence we have, as far as swift goes, is that they haven't decided yet, according to Chris' email quote. As others have said, most of Apple's other programming language work has become open source, a…
> ALL the evidence we have, as far as swift goes, is that they haven't decided yet, according to Chris' email quote. Yes, precisely. Apple currently has no intention of open-sourcing Swift. All of the evidence supports precisely what I've been saying. This is why I think it is good to remind them that we want them to decide in the affirmative.
You're picking a pretty fine nit on the meaning of the word 'intention.' I see your point, with the exception that you don't know what Apple's intentions are. We have a few pointers, though. The fact that Chris Lattner and some on his team are interested in open-sourcing it is a good sign. Given his wording, I would even say that he intends to have a discussion about open sourcing it. We have even less evidence that Apple intends to leave Swift forever closed source — it's simply the status quo.
Apple, as a corporate entity, likely has no intention either way right now. Even if it did, Apple rarely broadcasts its intentions. Swift will likely be closed source until suddenly it's not.
Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free
#94I really don't get why people stress over this. Swift only has value with the Mac OS X and iOS ecosystems, specially as a mean to drag Objective-C developers into the FP world. There are so many open source languages in the ML family, a few of them are even used in the industry for several years now. Just go and join one of those projects. They will appreciate any help they can get.
I wonder if their plan for the Indie Phone is to run recompiled iOS apps on GNUstep. Swift would have a lot of value in that case.
GNUStep is frozen in Panther, last time I checked.
There is hardly any modern Mac application that you can compile with it.
Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand that but it's only been available to the public for a few months. Apple were likely focussed completely on getting it ready for dev to use in iOS 8. That's where all their man power was. Give them some time.
It's been 33 days since iOS 8 came out. It takes 30 seconds to tweet "Hey, we have some cleaning up to do before we open up Swift, but it's coming some time in the next two years!" They have not even expressed an interest in open-sourcing it. Any thought of Apple open-sourcing Swift at this point is pure fantasy, so the suggestion that we "give them some time" doesn't make any sense to me.
It might take only 30 sec to tweet about it, but with open-sourcing comes a lot of stuff to deal with: once it goes open, there will be forks and pull requests and what not. Apple probably isn't yet ready to do fully open development (like they do with LLVM) of Swift.
Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free
#96I really don't get why people stress over this. Swift only has value with the Mac OS X and iOS ecosystems, specially as a mean to drag Objective-C developers into the FP world. There are so many open source languages in the ML family, a few of them are even used in the industry for several years now. Just go and join one of those projects. They will appreciate any help they can get.
Also remember that Swift is already starting to be taught in schools. Imagine if a natural language that is taught in schools was tied to a single company. If, for example, you needed an Apple pen to write English. How much of literature would we have missed out on? Would Shakespeare have been able to afford an Apple pen? Thankfully, we never have to find out ;)
When I graduated, we had to buy our compilers...
Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free
#97I really don't get why people stress over this. Swift only has value with the Mac OS X and iOS ecosystems, specially as a mean to drag Objective-C developers into the FP world. There are so many open source languages in the ML family, a few of them are even used in the industry for several years now. Just go and join one of those projects. They will appreciate any help they can get.
> There are so many open source languages in the ML family, a few of them are even used in the industry for several years now. Just go and join one of those projects. Well, some people like the decisions behind Swift, and would prefer a language with an ecosystem, documentation and developer community of the size that results from Apple being involved in it compared to, say, Jane Street. Heck, people also use Go most…
> it's a language 30 years behind Swift.
Interesting idea. Can you post a link that explains why that is?
Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's been 33 days since iOS 8 came out. It takes 30 seconds to tweet "Hey, we have some cleaning up to do before we open up Swift, but it's coming some time in the next two years!" They have not even expressed an interest in open-sourcing it. Any thought of Apple open-sourcing Swift at this point is pure fantasy, so the suggestion that we "give them some time" doesn't make any sense to me.
It might take only 30 sec to tweet about it, but with open-sourcing comes a lot of stuff to deal with: once it goes open, there will be forks and pull requests and what not. Apple probably isn't yet ready to do fully open development (like they do with LLVM) of Swift.
Did you not actually read the comment you replied to? The entire point was that they haven't even said "We intend to open-source Swift once we're ready." The last we heard, they hadn't even considered open-sourcing it, like, ever.
(To clarify for people who like to misread things, I did not just say "They expressly intend to never open-source it." I said that, last we heard, they had not even talked about ever open-sourcing it.)
Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
> ALL the evidence we have, as far as swift goes, is that they haven't decided yet, according to Chris' email quote. Yes, precisely. Apple currently has no intention of open-sourcing Swift. All of the evidence supports precisely what I've been saying. This is why I think it is good to remind them that we want them to decide in the affirmative.
You're picking a pretty fine nit on the meaning of the word 'intention.' I see your point, with the exception that you don't know what Apple's intentions are. We have a few pointers, though. The fact that Chris Lattner and some on his team are interested in open-sourcing it is a good sign. Given his wording, I would even say that he intends to have a discussion about open sourcing it. We have even less evidence that…
They don't need to intend to keep Swift closed forever in order for it to be kept closed forever. It takes an active intention for them to open it up, but not to keep it closed. If they put off making a final decision until the heat death of the universe, it will still never be open-sourced without them ever specifically intending not to.
Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
It might take only 30 sec to tweet about it, but with open-sourcing comes a lot of stuff to deal with: once it goes open, there will be forks and pull requests and what not. Apple probably isn't yet ready to do fully open development (like they do with LLVM) of Swift.
Did you not actually read the comment you replied to? The entire point was that they haven't even said "We intend to open-source Swift once we're ready." The last we heard, they hadn't even considered open-sourcing it, like, ever. (To clarify for people who like to misread things, I did not just say "They expressly intend to never open-source it." I said that, last we heard, they had not even talked about ever open-s…
Why should they waste 30 seconds on that? To satisfy you? Very few people really care about this. If they say anything and then it takes longer to deliver than they thought those people will jump down their throat. Better to say nothing and announce when ready.