Venezuelans turn to Bitcoins to bypass currency controls • Hacker News Board

Re: Venezuelans turn to Bitcoins to bypass currency controls

#91

Post by Retric » Thu, Oct 09, 2014, 6:45 PM UTC

aet wrote: post #90

Retric wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there paying far more than 6cents per gallon. Still, you forget generators are less than 100% efficient. At 30% that 30kW/hr = 9kW/hr for 6 cent. = 1.5 cents per kW/hr + cost of generator which is far from free. Anyway, your far better off just selling the gas.

I think it is the efficiency that I didn't consider. As far as I know, gas is roughly 5 cents a gallon.

For comparison I suspect you could easily get 1$ a gallon by just selling that gas. Using a mid sized fishing boat you could probably move ~1 to 10k gallons from the ships's fuel tank to a near by country without that seeming odd. Make that trip once a week and your living the good life without doing anything 'odd.' Hell I suspect you could simply meeting other fishing boats at sea fill their tanks for cash or even fish which would be next to impossible to catch.

Re: Venezuelans turn to Bitcoins to bypass currency controls

#92

Post by rsync » Thu, Oct 09, 2014, 7:21 PM UTC

rafaelm wrote: post #53

climber_mac wrote: post #29

I am from Venezuela. In case you are wondering how terrible the Venezuelan economy is right now, think about this: Our biggest denomination bill (100 Bolivares) is not enough to buy $1 USD [1]; in january 2013 you could buy $14 USD for the same amount. Also think about the fact that Venezuela has the largest proven oil reserves in the world [2]. I'm not even going to try to explain the currency exchange and control m…

Have you ever tried to buy bitcoins with our annual internet allowance ($300 per year on online purchases with credit card)? That's one way to get an instant 1000% profit (the official rate is Bs.11 per $ and the black market rate has been swinging between Bs.98-100 per dollar.) I think holding USD in Venezuela is much more valuable. Most people wouldn't know what to do with bitcoins in the country. With USD, you can…

"Have you ever tried to buy bitcoins with our annual internet allowance ($300 per year on online purchases with credit card)?"

Wait, what ? What is an "internet allowance" ? How would one credit card issuer know if you had already spent $300 using a different credit card ?

How can this possibly be a thing ?

Re: Venezuelans turn to Bitcoins to bypass currency controls

#93

Post by rafaelm » Thu, Oct 09, 2014, 7:58 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #92

rafaelm wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever tried to buy bitcoins with our annual internet allowance ($300 per year on online purchases with credit card)? That's one way to get an instant 1000% profit (the official rate is Bs.11 per $ and the black market rate has been swinging between Bs.98-100 per dollar.) I think holding USD in Venezuela is much more valuable. Most people wouldn't know what to do with bitcoins in the country. With USD, you can…

"Have you ever tried to buy bitcoins with our annual internet allowance ($300 per year on online purchases with credit card)?" Wait, what ? What is an "internet allowance" ? How would one credit card issuer know if you had already spent $300 using a different credit card ? How can this possibly be a thing ?

The govt created this central organism that controls your annual foreign currency allowance (it was called Cadivi, now called cencoex). You need to submit a bunch of docs to the bank you want your allowance at. So you can only spend your money using the credit cards issued by that bank.

For example, I sent in my papers to my bank at the beginning of the year. They activate my cards with that bank to be used online. You cannot use any other bank for online purchases.

We also get a $2500 yearly allowance for spending outside the country (if you travel) under a similar, more bureocratic mechanism.Unfortunately, since the govt has a MASSIVE debt with international airlines, most of them have cut most of their flights and you cannot get a flight out of Venezuela unless you are rich and can pay in dollars.

Re: Venezuelans turn to Bitcoins to bypass currency controls

#94

Post by anigbrowl » Thu, Oct 09, 2014, 8:18 PM UTC

oleganza wrote: post #71

anigbrowl wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not year-on-year it's not.

Year-over-year bitcoin is up approx. 300% as of today. In fact, it was 90% of the time in the past 5 years up YOY, except for 5-6 months after 2011th bubble.

I'm pretty sure that won't be true in 6 weeks time.

Re: Venezuelans turn to Bitcoins to bypass currency controls

#95

Post by j_lev » Fri, Oct 10, 2014, 2:52 AM UTC

climber_mac wrote: post #29

I am from Venezuela. In case you are wondering how terrible the Venezuelan economy is right now, think about this: Our biggest denomination bill (100 Bolivares) is not enough to buy $1 USD [1]; in january 2013 you could buy $14 USD for the same amount. Also think about the fact that Venezuela has the largest proven oil reserves in the world [2]. I'm not even going to try to explain the currency exchange and control m…

Bitcoin is just a part of the solution, a single arrow in the war against the disgusting institutionalized theft being perpetrated by the Venezuelan government.

Other "arrows" include the existence of a thriving black market, competition from other currencies (ie the US dollar), the $300 stipend, the barter system, etc. All these give the citizens a choice to not use VEF for transactions, and as demand for something goes to zero (especially in the face of ever-increasing supply), so goes it's value.

Regarding crypto-currencies specifically, if it is proven that there is a market for "Bitcoin plus alpha" (eg guaranteed convertibility for USD - probably not gonna happen but for example) tailored for the Venezuelan market then you can bet someone is working to make that "V-coin" a reality.

So don't look at Bitcoin as the silver bullet solution to solve Venezuela's woes, but rather as a significant step in the war against oppressive government.

Re: Venezuelans turn to Bitcoins to bypass currency controls

#96

Post by hhm » Fri, Oct 10, 2014, 2:20 PM UTC

markkat wrote: post #14

hhm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any sources about this? I hadn't heard about this before.

Bitshares does this: http://bitshares.org/ Their BITUSD has been tracking fairly well: http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/pair/bitusd/usd/bter/1-mont...

Thanks

Re: Venezuelans turn to Bitcoins to bypass currency controls

#97

Post by eru » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 12:20 AM UTC

celticninja wrote: post #82

cjensen wrote: post #5

That's interesting, but I'm pretty sure a physical dollar bill is more useful. A physical dollar can be used to make purchase stuff locally without a computer, and is easily accepted for a sale. In the example given in the article, the only reason the first guy in the article uses bitcoins is to buy an Amazon gift certificate (denominated in dollars) to buy stuff mail order. The only real lesson to be had from the Ve…

So do far right governments. It's almost as if we need a sort of middle ground.

Or more dimensions?

Re: Venezuelans turn to Bitcoins to bypass currency controls

#98

Post by mpyne » Mon, Oct 13, 2014, 7:10 PM UTC

shit_parade wrote: post #43

mpyne wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can't get past the idea that a currency needs to be backed by a state to be a real currency. That's the most ridiculous claim ever...currencies existed long before nation-states ever did. I think if you examine those economists' arguments further, you'll see it doesn't have as much to do with "OMG where's the state???!" as you seem to think. As you yourself point out, economies have worked since long before nation-…

Nixon took the US off the gold standard, fiat currency controlled by central banks is the real new experiment.

FDR took the larger U.S. international economy off the gold standard in 1933, so if "bank-controlled fiat" isn't exactly "new". And even that is a highly American-centric POV; other economies have worked on bank controls and fiat long before the U.S. even existed, including China in the 11th century and England starting from the 12th century.