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Why can't Apple decrypt your iPhone?

blog.cryptographyengineering.com

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Re: Why can't Apple decrypt your iPhone?

#91

Post by callesgg »

ghshephard wrote: post #78

I read through the article - including the hand wavey "Apple has never been cracking your data conclusion" - but I don't understand what has changed since previous versions of iOS other than more data being encrypted. Apple claims they can't decrypt data, but, the article suggests that they can simply run the decryption on the local phone with custom firmware. Most people chose a 4 digit pin, and, @80 millisecond/gue…

The passcode and the pin is not the same thing, most people don't have a passcode.

Re: Why can't Apple decrypt your iPhone?

#92

Post by bni »

abalone wrote: post #49

There's another technical surveillance method here that I feel more people should be talking about: monitoring iMessage communication. iMessage is extremely secure[1], except for the fact that Apple controls the device list for iCloud accounts. The method would simply be for Apple to silently add another device to a target's account which is under law enforcement's control. I say "silently" in that they would need to…

That would only catch messages sent to the target, not messages that the target sent itself. For example if I send a iMessage to a friend on my Mac, I won't see my sent message on my iPhone later.

Re: Why can't Apple decrypt your iPhone?

#93

Post by ghshephard »

callesgg wrote: post #91
ghshephard wrote: post #78

I read through the article - including the hand wavey "Apple has never been cracking your data conclusion" - but I don't understand what has changed since previous versions of iOS other than more data being encrypted. Apple claims they can't decrypt data, but, the article suggests that they can simply run the decryption on the local phone with custom firmware. Most people chose a 4 digit pin, and, @80 millisecond/gue…

The passcode and the pin is not the same thing, most people don't have a passcode.

Re: "The passcode and the pin is not the same thing, most people don't have a passcode."

On iOS I believe this is incorrect, the Passcode is another name for PIN on the iPhone.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4113

You can have complex or simple passcodes, but everybody I've ever seen who bothers to have a passcode (myself excepted), sets it to a 4 digit code (aka PIN). To make it worse, it's usually their ATM PIN.

Re: Why can't Apple decrypt your iPhone?

#94

Post by ObviousScience »

eridius wrote: post #90
jshevek wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I don't understand the problem, but it seems to me that it would be very simple for apple to prevent the popup messages at their discretion, since they write and control the software that causes the popup to happen in the first place.

They would have to update the OS on the device first. And that's definitely not something that can be done silently. I'm assuming here that the OS already doesn't have the ability to suppress the popup, and I think that's a safe assumption because Apple doesn't want to have this ability.

> And that's definitely not something that can be done silently.

Can you link me to a technical analysis about this?

It would be one of the few phones where the baseband/SIM couldn't make changes to the system.

Re: Why can't Apple decrypt your iPhone?

#95

Post by ghshephard »

pasta_1 wrote: post #32
comex wrote: post #27

> The Secure Enclave is designed to prevent exfiltration of the UID key. On earlier Apple devices this key lived in the application processor itself, and could (allegedly) be extracted if the device was jailbroken and kernel patched. Speaking as a jailbreaker, this is actually incorrect. At least as of previous revisions, the UID key lives in hardware - you can ask the hardware AES engine to encrypt or decrypt using…

Is jailbreaking becoming more difficult and would that be a sign of iOS/iPhone becoming more secure?

It's a step towards becoming more secure. Having control of your operating system (that is, preventing other programs from taking control prior to the operating system starting up), is clearly a desirable behavior if you want to prevent applications like keyloggers, data sniffers, etc...

Re: Why can't Apple decrypt your iPhone?

#96

Post by ghshephard »

Spearchucker wrote: post #85
exhilaration wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try 1Password: https://agilebits.com/onepassword It's the most recommended password manager on Hacker News.

Thanks, I'm aware of it but it doesn't work for me. Beyond what I described above, I need something that works on Windows and Windows Phone, and I need it to securely sync between the two.

This implies that there is a version of 1Password for windows phone?

https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/12133/1password...

Re: Why can't Apple decrypt your iPhone?

#97

Post by hrktb »

bni wrote: post #92
abalone wrote: post #49

There's another technical surveillance method here that I feel more people should be talking about: monitoring iMessage communication. iMessage is extremely secure[1], except for the fact that Apple controls the device list for iCloud accounts. The method would simply be for Apple to silently add another device to a target's account which is under law enforcement's control. I say "silently" in that they would need to…

That would only catch messages sent to the target, not messages that the target sent itself. For example if I send a iMessage to a friend on my Mac, I won't see my sent message on my iPhone later.

iMessage syncs the sent messages across the devices as well. The might be some conditions on the sync (e.g. messages sent before the device was added to the account, or message older than x months during which the device was offline, etc..) but I'm looking at my mac app and I definitely my iPhone messages.

Re: Why can't Apple decrypt your iPhone?

#98

Post by ghshephard »

rietta wrote: post #62
philip1209 wrote: post #14

> (Apple pegs such cracking attempts at 5 1/2 years for a random 6-character password consisting of lowercase letters and numbers. PINs will obviously take much less time, sometimes as little as half an hour. Choose a good passphrase!) Do not use simple pin passwords on your phone. In particular, if you use fingerprint access, there is no reason not to have a long, complex password.

There is an argument against using the fingerprint access and that is that a user gives up the right of consent while in custody. If law enforcement gets a judicial order to forcibly press the prisoner's finger to the sensor to unlock the device, then he or she has little recourse as the right to remain silent is not implicated. One cannot be similarly physically compelled to disclose a code only held in his or her m…

As long as you can lawyer up for 48 hours, the iPhone will time out and require a passcode, and ignore your fingerprint.

Re: Why can't Apple decrypt your iPhone?

#99

Post by ghshephard »

tzs wrote: post #20
venomsnake wrote: post #16

So the key is derived from passcode? isn't that 5 digits that are easy to brute force?

5 digits would be easy. It would take a little over an hour on average. However, passcodes are not limited to digits. Use upper and lower case letters and digits, and then a 5 character passcode would on average a little over a year. Make it 6 characters, and that's 72 years.

I'm guessing based on my observations of 40-50 people entering Passcode, that north of 90% of people who bother to use a Passcode (or care to) - use a 4 digit pin.

Even those who are super security conscious tend to just use numeric PINs. It's the very, very rare individual who enters an alphanumeric passcode.

Re: Why can't Apple decrypt your iPhone?

#100

Post by ghshephard »

shabble wrote: post #73
rosser wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very probably within the realms of possibility , yes. It's very probably not within the realms of practicality just yet, however.

Go check out some conference presentations by Christopher Tarnovsky. He's made a career out of it, and acquired some very expensive toys (focused ion-beam equipment doesn't come cheap), but there are lectures of his explaining how he broke the (iirc) STMicro TPM chips for fun . These sorts of devices have all sorts of countermeasures against direct invasive attacks like these, but with enough cash and bricked test ph…

If the iPhone actually does become very popular, particularly with terrorists, it will be hard to imagine that the NSA doesn't just go develop this capability internally.

"enough cash and bricked test phones" - the great thing about this, is you can just buy the $650 phones - you can get a thousand of them for less than a million dollars, which probably is under your typical line managers budget in the NSA techOps group.

And, lets be realistic, Apple isn't trying to defend against the NSA or Nation States, just your average hacker without access to $100mm+ in hardware.

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