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Apple Pay

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Re: Apple Pay

#91

Post by ctz »

itry wrote: post #41

So we want to make payments via our phones. My first thought would be to create a protocol for this. Instead we get ApplePay and GoogleWallet and whatnot. If the internet was invented today, we would have AppleMail instead of email and GoogleTrans instead of http.

The payments protocol is called EMV. The wireless transport protocol is ISO14443. Then we have different branding of the combination of EMV+ISO14443 for different card issuing networks (Mastercard PayPass, Visa payWave, etc.) Apple Pay and Google Wallet are further branding of the pair of standards.

A possible reason Apple might succeed where Google Wallet failed: Apple have a better track record of telling MNOs to fuck off. It's the reason the software update process is better on iPhone, it's the reason your iPhone doesn't come with carrier bloatware, and it's the reason they can put a secure element in their phone without the MNO being the root of trust.

Re: Apple Pay

#93

Post by arfrank »

panabee wrote: post #13

One implication of Apple Pay is it erodes advantages of leaders like Uber. Minimizing payment and account friction means trying a new service becomes much easier.

It erodes, but also enables you to focus on your companies core competency rather than payments.

Also viewing this through the lens that e-commerce view shopping cart conversion rates, this might up initial conversion for new services, which in Uber cases is a win. Just forces everyone to focus more on product.

Re: Apple Pay

#94

Post by ehhuang »

allegory wrote: post #5

What I want to know, having a contactless card, is what do you do when the machine isn't working. You can't swipe it or use the chip in this case. Then you're screwed. If you have to carry the card anyway to get around this, what's the point other than showing everyone you have an iPhone, which at least in London is a quick way to get cracked over the head.

what do you do now when the credit card machine isn't working? There's always going to be a point of failure.

Re: Apple Pay

#95

Post by arfrank »

Johnie wrote: post #36
rnernento wrote: post #7

I think I'm missing something on this, but how is it possible Apple isn't storing credit card information on the device or their servers? How are they connecting the payments you make with Apple pay back to the credit card you choose to use.

This is done via credit card tokenization. Tokenization is a major boom to the payment industry. However, there is a lot of complexity and moving pieces for all of this to work. But once it works, it'll unlock a lot of potential for startups to innovate in the payment industry. http://www.emvco.com/specifications.aspx?id=263

Curious to hear what innovations you see coming down the pipeline? The spec also discusses loyalty programs via tokenization, but no one has yet to implement them to my knowledge.

Re: Apple Pay

#96

Post by k-mcgrady »

pkulak wrote: post #72
itry wrote: post #41

So we want to make payments via our phones. My first thought would be to create a protocol for this. Instead we get ApplePay and GoogleWallet and whatnot. If the internet was invented today, we would have AppleMail instead of email and GoogleTrans instead of http.

Google Wallet uses exactly whatever standard let's you tap a credit card to a contactless payment terminal. I assume Apple Pay is the same thing?

They use the same tech to communicate (NFC) but Apple's security features seem unique.

Re: Apple Pay

#97

Post by seanflyon »

itry wrote: post #41

So we want to make payments via our phones. My first thought would be to create a protocol for this. Instead we get ApplePay and GoogleWallet and whatnot. If the internet was invented today, we would have AppleMail instead of email and GoogleTrans instead of http.

http://xkcd.com/927/

Re: Apple Pay

#98

Post by hrktb »

sosborn wrote: post #68
hrktb wrote: post #53

Japan has a flourishing NFC payment ecosystem, and it's strange it's completely left out on this announcement. Would they have given early access and bundled the Suica app for instance, they could have boasted millions of users from the get go. I wonder if the upcoming API is even compatible with the Felica standard, but that would be a weird thing to do.

Japan's NFC payment ecosystem is owned by Sony and DoCoMo. I highly doubt that Apple wanted to subject themselves to the license terms and/or the lack of technical control. That system is also widely deployed but in my experience (9 years of living there, no evidence other than anecdotal) not widely used.

Docomo is pretty willing to open up their technology to expand the ecosystem (that's what they did with Softbank and au, and JR also has a part in it), because they know it would die if they kept it for themselves. And that's openly one of the role of BitWallet, the joint venture they made for the solution. Actually I really hoped they could do something with that outside of Japan.

I think regarding to NFC, it really depends on where you live. I was commuting on a JR line, and having Mobile Suica combine with Edy was such a boon that I could forget my wallet I wouldn't care. Just having your phone means you can ride the train, buy anything at the convince store, pay the restaurant (you may have less choice, but there's a lot of them accepting Edy or another service), buy music or electronics, and buy drinks from vending machines. It's almost surreal how much you can do.

I later moved to the Keikyuu line and it was still great, but less magical.

In terms of technical control, Apple already choose "standard NFC" (at least that's the quote I have on the liveblog), and I would guess they are bound by Visa and Amex for the implementation. A priori Felica is part of the NFC standard, IF it supports the encrypted protocol it should be OK to have everything as third party apps.

Re: Apple Pay

#99

Post by seanflyon »

post_break wrote: post #63
UVB-76 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit like Visa/Mastercard cards, I doubt any merchants are going to deliberately limit the type of NFC payments they accept.

ISIS already limits it to ISIS only.

FYI Isis changed their name to Softcard to sound less terroristy

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-03/isis-mobile-wallet-...

Re: Apple Pay

#100

Post by seanflyon »

Quasimoto3000 wrote: post #83
ycombinatoracc wrote: post #74

From a company that keeps your pictures secure comes secure credit card wallet, you couldn't make it up :rollseyes:

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there no connection between Apple and the leaks?

I think you are wrong. Unlimited incorrect log-in attempts and security credentials in plain text are a connection to Apple.
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