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Find salaries paid at companies using foreign worker data

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Re: Find salaries paid at companies using foreign worker data

#91

Post by seanmcdirmid »

michaeltoth wrote: post #80
emidln wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also need to consider the tax implications of bonuses vs salary. At least where I live, bonuses are heavily taxed (~40%)

In the United States bonuses are taxed as ordinary income. Companies may withhold a higher percentage than a standard paycheck, but this is generally because they treat the bonus as if you will continue to receive that income throughout the entire year, and withhold at the corresponding higher rate. When taxes are filed you will receive a refund for any taxes overpaid.

Where I live, tax rate (and income bracket!) is determined month to month, so bonuses are problematic but the company will spread them around to avoid fluctuation.

Re: Find salaries paid at companies using foreign worker data

#92

Post by kyllo »

tbrownaw wrote: post #87
otakucode wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are expected to leave the company. Raises are kept far, far below the rate at which employees actually accrue value in order to ensure that employees do not stay at a company for longer than 4 or 5 years. After 4 or 5 years, the gap between what you would make anywhere else and what you can make where you already are is enormous. There is a quote from hundreds of years ago which applies. "Make game of that which…

[...] in order to ensure that employees do not stay at a company for longer than 4 or 5 years. Training new people is expensive. Why would any sane company deliberately encourage turnover?

Because high salaries are expensiver. Or at least they look that way on paper. Companies don't like paying an experienced employee 2-3x in salary what they would have to pay a new hire to do the same tasks. The training cost and quality dropoff are less visible and more externalizeable costs, but you see the salary savings the very next pay cycle.

Re: Find salaries paid at companies using foreign worker data

#93

Post by refurb »

celebdor wrote: post #75
robbyking wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not always. My company offers market rate adjustments (outside of the usual review/salary adjustment periods) to retain experienced developers.

How does such process work? What determines the market rate for the adjustments?

There are compensation consultants that many companies use to benchmark salaries. The same thing happened at my company, salaries went up quickly so they adjusted everyone. Before that new hires were getting higher salaries than people with more experience who had been there many years.

Re: Find salaries paid at companies using foreign worker data

#94

Post by kelukelugames »

JimboOmega wrote: post #37
kelukelugames wrote: post #2

I love these things. Transparency in salary information gives the employees more power. I know the site is down at the moment but it's worth it to bookmark and come back later. Make sure you set the search fields to 2013 or 2012 to 2013 to remove stale salaries. You don't want to negotiate using data from 2009. ;) Here is comparing google to microsoft to amazon in Seattle. The gaps are pretty wide even for college hi…

Let's say you're being underpaid; what is the right strategy to take? I don't want to poison the working relationship with people above me.

The first thing is to be brave. Understand that the market is currently in your favor. If you leave then you will make new friends and form new relationships. And if you leave then management will likely be very nice to you for two reasons: 1) to build their own network and 2) it kills morale if others see you being treated poorly.

If they treat you poorly then no one from your network will ever work for them. And if you take the story to the Internets then it gets even worse. Trust me, the company has more to lose than you do if the relationship sours.

Even though you have most of the leverage, approach your manager with respect and graciousness. Thank them and talk about how much you enjoy working here. Then tell them your pay is compressed and ask for a raise. You can google this part. Some approaches suggest being straightforward and others say build a list of your accomplishments.

Most companies even have your comp-a ratio on file, they already know you are underpaid.

If they say yes then congratulations.

If they say no (I can't make this decision. I need the VP's approval. We don't have the budget. blah blah) then work on finding a new job. Which sounds daunting but really isn't that bad.

Anyway good luck!

EDIT: Shitty story time. I have had managers say "What we can do to change your mind?" I love that...but the last time I asked for a raise my boss gave me a lecture on how there are more important things in life. People who make over 250k a year are not allowed to tell me money is not important. What a jackass.

Re: Find salaries paid at companies using foreign worker data

#95

Post by kelukelugames »

celebdor wrote: post #75
robbyking wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not always. My company offers market rate adjustments (outside of the usual review/salary adjustment periods) to retain experienced developers.

How does such process work? What determines the market rate for the adjustments?

Google famously did it many years ago. Microsoft did it a few years ago. Every engineer got a 10% raise.

Re: Find salaries paid at companies using foreign worker data

#96

Post by e12e »

kelukelugames wrote: post #95
celebdor wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does such process work? What determines the market rate for the adjustments?

Google famously did it many years ago. Microsoft did it a few years ago. Every engineer got a 10% raise.

Funny, after they'd entered into an agreement to fix the pay across (a substantial part of) the industry?

Re: Find salaries paid at companies using foreign worker data

#97

Post by rcoder »

johnward wrote: post #62
otakucode wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are expected to leave the company. Raises are kept far, far below the rate at which employees actually accrue value in order to ensure that employees do not stay at a company for longer than 4 or 5 years. After 4 or 5 years, the gap between what you would make anywhere else and what you can make where you already are is enormous. There is a quote from hundreds of years ago which applies. "Make game of that which…

I believe this to be true. However, in some cases you can get a competing offer and have your current employer match it. My experience is that suggesting you are underpaid without a competing offer doesn't get you very far. Most employers will pay you as little as possible given the market and in the tech market you can jump ship.

I strongly disagree with this. It may be true at many companies, but not anywhere I would ever work (esp. as a manager).

Requiring people to have a competitive offer in-hand basically says, "if you want a raise, go interview somewhere else." That's toxic and only effective for the people who game the system.

Responsible employers owe their employees a fair (according to market, their peers, and their contributions) wage, not the minimum they can possibly get away with paying. It might save you a few bucks in the near term to play stupid games with people's comp, but the attrition will kill you in the long run.

Re: Find salaries paid at companies using foreign worker data

#98

Post by rcoder »

otakucode wrote: post #60
JimboOmega wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say you're being underpaid; what is the right strategy to take? I don't want to poison the working relationship with people above me.

You are expected to leave the company. Raises are kept far, far below the rate at which employees actually accrue value in order to ensure that employees do not stay at a company for longer than 4 or 5 years. After 4 or 5 years, the gap between what you would make anywhere else and what you can make where you already are is enormous. There is a quote from hundreds of years ago which applies. "Make game of that which…

It sounds like you've had some terrible experiences with employers gaming your salary, for which I'm sorry.

As a manager, I value my long-tenured employees _very_ highly and work hard to ensure they get significant raises year after year. I learned to do that by working as an engineer at several other companies that did the same.

So, if your employer doesn't work to make their best, most experienced engineers feel valued and well-compensated, by all means look for another job. But don't assume that all companies will try to force you out as soon as your salary is higher than a new grad's.

Re: Find salaries paid at companies using foreign worker data

#99

Post by mjmahone17 »

johnward wrote: post #65
syntern wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a large or small company? How long have you been there? Are you looking only at the base salary part? (e.g. for the reference my total compensation is almost double than my base salary)...

I've decided that due to company policies I shouldn't really say much more.

It is illegal for companies to retaliate for your discussing your salary (though probably not for calling them a "liar"). Look up the National Labor Relations Act.

That being said, you can be fired for things that you're legally allowed to discuss, and then it becomes an issue of whether you're willing to pay lawyer's fees to sue. Which is not usually a great situation to be in.

Re: Find salaries paid at companies using foreign worker data

#100

Post by johnward »

monksy wrote: post #86
johnward wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this to be true. However, in some cases you can get a competing offer and have your current employer match it. My experience is that suggesting you are underpaid without a competing offer doesn't get you very far. Most employers will pay you as little as possible given the market and in the tech market you can jump ship.

If you are looking for a counter offer, you're pretty much burning your bridge. Nothing but resentment can come from that. Additionally it makes you look weak if you take the offer.

In any negotiation it doesn't hurt to have some leverage. Especially when the company already has most of the leverage in employment situations. In my experience not burning bridges is entirely overrated. I also fail to see how asking for a counter offer is "burning a bridge" but I don't ask for counters. I turn in my two weeks and tell them why I am leaving. If the company offers me a better offer (money, benefits, vacation, flexibility, etc) I may take it but I go in with the full understanding that I am leaving. There are a lot of cases where the money itself won't matter if your current employer matches because there are other things you just don't like about the situation.

I've used this tactic twice with the same employer. It's just business and any professional manager will not foster resentment. If it does cause resentment then you can solve it by simply leaving. I have no concerns over "looking weak". I'm only in this for me. It's bad enough that I trade my precious time for money. I'm going to take as much as the market will offer me. It probably sounds selfish but that's how it is. I work only to provide a decent life for my family. If I had 5 million today I would not continue to do what I do. I would find something to occupy that time but it wouldn't be trading hours for dollars.

What do you expect people to do? Work for the same company for 30 years and be happy to get maybe a 2% raise year over year?

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