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What's the matter with PGP?

blog.cryptographyengineering.com

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Re: What's the matter with PGP?

#91
post #3

At one point in this essay, Matt suggests that every successful end-to-end encryption scheme has employed transparent (or "translucent") key management. What he's referring to is the idea behind, say, OTR: two people can use it without the key handshake required by PGP. Matt is wrong about this. He's being victimized by a pernicious fallacy. It certainly appears that the most "successful" cryptosystems have transpare…

I strongly agree with Matt that a transparent key exchange is crucial to boost PGP adoption. In fact, a few weeks ago I proposed a mechanism to do precisely that, over automated email responses, see http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=76 (the mechanism I describe also solves a bunch of problems regarding how to share other personal information).

I would love to hear input from HN readers...

Re: What's the matter with PGP?

#92

Just a random thought - maybe there is a way to nail hard the point that "you cannot have security if you're lazy"? The society expects people to do driving licenses before getting behind the wheel. Why not expect people to put some amount of effort to be able to get mortgage or interact with court, etc.? Sure, many people will screw this up, but maybe this will be enough to secure majority. (confession: I myself am…

I started this project https://github.com/abemassry/wsend-gpg and while it's not the easiest to use I'm sure it can be improved. There's no key exchange either but there has to be a quick and easy solution that people can use if we work on it a little more.

Re: What's the matter with PGP?

#93
The user needs to control the encryption, not Google or Yahoo. Surely Google is not proposing a system that prevents them from reading your email and serving you ads? Until we have something that actually prevents Google and Yahoo from getting the plaintext, none of the other problems matter that much.

The NSA isn't my concern, Google etc. are. I don't want to bother going to the lengths necessary to secure myself from the NSA since that just isn't practical. But it would be nice if google and its employees didn't have access to the plaintext of my email. If I send an email to anyone using gmail and they decrypt it in a way that lets google see my text when they reply, all of my own security steps are worthless.

Re: What's the matter with PGP?

#94
Problem:

PGP is complicated (VERY complicated, to the average user), resulting in next to zero adoption.

Suggestion:

Simplify the goals in a way that can be upgraded at at some later date.

I think we need a browser plugin (All browsers. Other non-browser tools too, ideally, but the browser is important) that lets you securely SIGN posts locally in a style more or less like GPG's --clearsign option. Ideally, this should literally be --clearsign for compatibility, with the plugin hiding the "---- BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE ----" headers/footers, though these details are less important.

The key should be automagically generated, and stored locally in a secure way. (Bonus points for leting you use the keyrings in ~/.gnupg/ as an advanced, optional feature). The UI goal is to simply let people post things and click a sign this button next to a or similar. Ideally, later on, this could become sign-by-default.

On the other side, the browser plugin should notice signed blocks of text and authenticate them. Pubkeys are saved locally (key pinning). What this provides is 1) verification that posts are actually by the same author, and 2) it proves that someone is the same author cross-domain (or as different accounts/usernames).

No attempt is made to tie the key to some external identity (though this would be somewhat easy for to prove). The idea is to remove the authentication problem (keyservers/pki) entirely. This can be man-in-the-middled, but the MitM would have to be working 100% of the time or the change in key will be noticed.

No attempt is made regarding encryption (hiding the message). This should also greatly simplify the interface.

The goal here is to get people using proper (LOCAL STORE ONLY) public/private keys. The UI should be little more than a [sign this] button that handles everything, and a icon on the reading side. It should be possible to get the average user to understand and use such a tool.

Later, when the idea of signing your posts has become more widespread and many people have a valid public/private key pair already in use, other features can be added back in. As those "2nd generation" tools have a large pool of keys to draw from, it should be easier to start some variant of Web Of Trust. Even if that never happens, getting signing widespread is useful on its own.

I realize this doesn't protect against a large number of well-known attacks, and only offers mild protection against MitM. This is intentional, as the goal is getting people to actually use some minimal subset of PGP/GPG-like tools, possibly as an educational exercise. The rest of the stuff can be addressed later.

Re: What's the matter with PGP?

#95
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fair point and one I hear often, but can you be sure that for as long as you live, you will never have a reason to fear the global adversary? I trust my government (within reason) at the moment but I'm not comfortable betting that they will never ever turn anti-gay and start coming after me.

I said this above, but I'll say it again here: if your government has identified you as a target, there's very little you can do but hide and hope you can find another government willing to protect you. That said, crypto is useful in avoiding their gaze in the first place. For this, vulnerable crypto is better than nothing: assuming the vulnerable crypto requires a non-trivial and non-repeatable process to break, it'…

> That said, crypto is useful in avoiding their gaze in the first place.

I'm not entirely sure that I agree. I've long thought that using encryption above and beyond what the average person employs would be a great way to appear on 'their' radar. I don't have the need, so I'm happy not trying to find out. That said, if everyone had strong encryption enabled by default, no one would stand out, which I support.

Re: What's the matter with PGP?

#96
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I ask people for their e-mail address, they give it to me. When I ask them to verify their pgp key, it's less easy. How could the verification of the key be built into the address they give me? Something DNSSEC based I guess.

Either you need a trusted third party or you need to pass something that looks like (at best): 4UpbRAXYMgrESrAwiLPYymNNni1hwyL2JEK7zz2SN52t You could do that by printing it on a business card or reading it over the phone, and then the other guy is going to have to type it in somewhere. The reason trusted third party keeps on coming up, despite all the myriad fundamental problems, is exactly because slinging that arou…

There IS a nicer way to present fingerprints to be much more human readable: map every few bytes to the whole dictionary word. There is a RFC for that:

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1751.txt

Re: What's the matter with PGP?

#97
Why isn't RFC 1751

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1751.txt

used to provide the fingerprints that are readable? Verifying would be much more convenient than now.

"For example, the 128-bit key of:

         CCAC 2AED 5910 56BE 4F90 FD44 1C53 4766
would become

         RASH BUSH MILK LOOK BAD BRIM AVID GAFF BAIT ROT POD LOVE
Likewise, a user should be able to type in

         TROD MUTE TAIL WARM CHAR KONG HAAG CITY BORE O TEAL AWL
as a key, and the machine should make the translation to:

         EFF8 1F9B FBC6 5350 920C DD74 16DE 8009"

Re: What's the matter with PGP?

#98
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I ask people for their e-mail address, they give it to me. When I ask them to verify their pgp key, it's less easy. How could the verification of the key be built into the address they give me? Something DNSSEC based I guess.

Why is it not easy to verify a key (fingerprint)? Put it on a business card with the email address or read it over the phone? Also, DNSSEC isn't much more secure than our current CA system.

Now your collection of business cards is susceptible to tampering (no cryptographic authentication!).

Do you never leave your collected business cards unattended at a conference or trade fair? Possible, if you put them into your shirt pocket.

Do you store them in a vault lomg-term? Probably not.

Is it impossible to impersonate you, either with a human sound-alike or by voice generation software?

If you want perfect security against everyone, it quickly spirals out of control. You should probably remove the wallpapers in your house regularly and inspect what's underneath. ;-)

I'm not entirely serious here, but I'm surprised at the optimism about what the individual can possibly achieve.

Re: What's the matter with PGP?

#99
post #66

Learning to drive a car is hard. You have to watch the road, coordinate hands and feet, anticipate other drivers' moves and so on. No one bats an eye about this, because "it's a skill you have to learn". If you don't play by the rules of the road, you'll end up killing someone, or getting killed. But for some reason (maybe because it's generally less life-threatening), people seem to expect deeply complex subjects, l…

I can't drive. Not for lack of trying.

I seemingly can't develop the the muscle memory of unintuitive (to me) concepts like "clockwise is right" and "counter-clockwise is left", nor can I get used to the way a gas pedal actuates non-linearly. These are just two examples of a long list of problems that I have with the controls.

Then there is the utterly confusing signage.

I just can't do any of it, not without sweating like a pig. And I definitely can't be doing all of it at the same time. That's just nuts.

Every time I pick up a PS3 controller I have to learn to use it again, which depending on my withdrawal period can take anywhere from a couple of minutes to like half an hour. The only reason I can touch-type is because I'm doing it every day.

Please don't make the assumption that other's experience of the man-made world around us is in any way similar to yours, that's just not true.

Oh, and I have had absolutely no problem figuring out PGP encryption usage.

Re: What's the matter with PGP?

#100

I'm kind of sad the author didn't touch on key signing at all. The trust levels are basically meaningless. What does it mean to trust someone more than someone else? If doing a request to get someone's key exposes your social network, imagine what publicly signing someone's key does. Just some food for thought :)

trust levels used during signing represent quality of identity check. in simple terms: if you checked ID of the person that is "sig3", if guy just claims the name on internet than it's "sig1"

on the other hand, "owner trust" is a local concept which is not exported and used solely for trust-path verification

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