Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why the New Obamacare Website Is Going to Work This Time

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 102 posts

Re: Why the New Obamacare Website Is Going to Work This Time

#91

Post by pdeuchler »

rayiner wrote: post #79
pdeuchler wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to start a political flame war, but... How do you, as technologically savvy people who are in a better position than most to understand the grave transgressions of the NSA, reconcile your support of an administration that has shown complete disregard for our privacy and civil liberties (specifically within the scope of the NSA/Snowden scandal) with your inherent duty, as an engineer of powerful systems, to above…

Here is something that'll blow your mind: lots of technologically savvy people don't think surveillance is a policy so bad that it destroys the governments overall credibility. Some even don't see a problem with it.

Thus my, admittedly loaded, question :)

Re: Why the New Obamacare Website Is Going to Work This Time

#92

Post by pbreit »

pdeuchler wrote: post #27
brandonb wrote: post #2

A bunch of the folks in this article are Y Combinator or Google alumni, and we're giving a talk on Saving HealthCare.gov next Thursday in SF for anyone who's interested: http://www.eventbrite.com/e/saving-healthcaregov-tickets-118... Let us know if you have questions! Or if you want to help. UPDATE: we seem to be sold out. Trying to find a larger venue. In the meantime, feel free to sign up on the waiting list and yo…

Not to start a political flame war, but... How do you, as technologically savvy people who are in a better position than most to understand the grave transgressions of the NSA, reconcile your support of an administration that has shown complete disregard for our privacy and civil liberties (specifically within the scope of the NSA/Snowden scandal) with your inherent duty, as an engineer of powerful systems, to above…

Pretty much everything you wrote is complete nonsense. There's no relation between healthcare and spying. People don't put their medical information into the system (hello! no more denials for pre-existing conditions). "Corrupt"? Really? Then you try to shame the folks for participating but even acknowledge that inanity with your caveat. Pretty shameful all the way around.

Re: Why the New Obamacare Website Is Going to Work This Time

#93

Post by pbreit »

pdeuchler wrote: post #55
redthrowaway wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can both support building a tool to give people healthcare and be against government surveillance. Most people are able to compartmentalize their support or opposition for various government policies and do not see the doing of one thing they don't like as a reason not to support any other thing the government does.

That's kind of my question though, is how do you compartmentalize that? This may be a personal character flaw, but I definitely wouldn't be able to. The NSA revelations aren't just some small political transgressions, this is a rather world shaking development that shows we have been subject to vast, malicious (i.e. not for our good but for the good of others), and illegal surveillance that has steadily eroded many o…

If you fell so strongly about it, how can you remain a citizen? Thought so.

Re: Why the New Obamacare Website Is Going to Work This Time

#94

Post by lekanwang »

Alupis wrote: post #68
hy3lxs wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly from scratch. Cannot speak directly to experience of original developers, but I could see moving target as being an issue. Would love to see our code open sourced someday and be useful to others, especially state exchanges, but that is a long-term goal. Currently we are laser-focused on getting everything ready to ship by next open enrollment.

would be curious to get some answers as-to why this wasn't the path to building the website all along? I mean, the original site was awarded to CGI Inc without any biding process... and they aren't even a US company. Why did we not have US professionals/companies build this thing the first go-round? I could have imagined a High-Tech All-Stars sort of thing... each major US tech company sends 1 or 2 representatives to…

The government procurement process is insanely complex. A full competitive bid process for something of this magnitude would have taken many months at least, and would also make it really hard for consortiums to bid because of the up-front cost. Hence the beltway incumbents (Lockheed, Northrop, IBM, and, yes, CGI though they're much smaller) have a much easier time winning these contracts since knowing how to navigate the contracting process and having existing contract vehicles unfortunately gets you a large part of the way there.

I believe CGI actually got this contract via an IDIQ, which is an "indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity" contract, allowing HHS to add additional "tasks" to the IDIQ contract as long as its within certain bounds set by the contract, and if it stays within their GSA fee schedule. IDIQs started becoming popular in the 90s as a more expedient way to contract rather than the months-long or even years-long process of a standard competitive bidding process. However, it only really solved the procurement woes for incumbents. I couldn't find the original CGI-Federal contract, but here's at least their press release: http://www.cgi.com/en/CGI-selected-build-US-wide-competitive...

Also, here's Accenture RFP award as the prime for fixing up the site for the next enrollment cycle. https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&i...

Re: Why the New Obamacare Website Is Going to Work This Time

#95

Post by brownbat »

pbreit wrote: post #93
pdeuchler wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's kind of my question though, is how do you compartmentalize that? This may be a personal character flaw, but I definitely wouldn't be able to. The NSA revelations aren't just some small political transgressions, this is a rather world shaking development that shows we have been subject to vast, malicious (i.e. not for our good but for the good of others), and illegal surveillance that has steadily eroded many o…

If you fell so strongly about it, how can you remain a citizen? Thought so.

While a bit brusque, this comment does illustrate that we're all compartmentalizing to some extent. Even pdeuchler, who suggests that same's lack of ability to compartmentalize may even be a character flaw...

It isn't, you're doing it already. Living and working here, paying taxes, it all supports the state to some extent.

You can't escape these dilemmas and still interact with the world in basically any way. Take any product. Money that buys avocados will inevitably support Mexican cartels. Widespread guac boycotts would just starve the farmers trying to claw towards legitimacy through economic growth.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230327770...

We're all hypocrites given enough scrutiny.

And there are some reasonable defenses for it.

Jeremy Lott wrote a whole book on that topic, "In Defense of Hypocrisy," http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1595550526/kevinholts...

Other arguments offered in this review: http://www.bookslut.com/nonfiction/2006_11_010195.php

(This is, of course, assuming this is hypocritical, as not everyone finds the spying out of bounds, difficult as that may be to conceive. Entirely separate discussion there though, one that's been trod to death on these boards.)

Re: Why the New Obamacare Website Is Going to Work This Time

#96

Post by Uhhrrr »

pdeuchler wrote: post #27
brandonb wrote: post #2

A bunch of the folks in this article are Y Combinator or Google alumni, and we're giving a talk on Saving HealthCare.gov next Thursday in SF for anyone who's interested: http://www.eventbrite.com/e/saving-healthcaregov-tickets-118... Let us know if you have questions! Or if you want to help. UPDATE: we seem to be sold out. Trying to find a larger venue. In the meantime, feel free to sign up on the waiting list and yo…

Not to start a political flame war, but... How do you, as technologically savvy people who are in a better position than most to understand the grave transgressions of the NSA, reconcile your support of an administration that has shown complete disregard for our privacy and civil liberties (specifically within the scope of the NSA/Snowden scandal) with your inherent duty, as an engineer of powerful systems, to above…

To make the coupling explicit, what assurance do we have that information given to HealthCare.gov won't be illegally accessed by employees at NSA and other three-letter agencies?

Re: Why the New Obamacare Website Is Going to Work This Time

#97

Post by kropotkin »

brandonb wrote: post #2

A bunch of the folks in this article are Y Combinator or Google alumni, and we're giving a talk on Saving HealthCare.gov next Thursday in SF for anyone who's interested: http://www.eventbrite.com/e/saving-healthcaregov-tickets-118... Let us know if you have questions! Or if you want to help. UPDATE: we seem to be sold out. Trying to find a larger venue. In the meantime, feel free to sign up on the waiting list and yo…

Are Tor users going to be blocked from accessing the new site also?

Re: Why the New Obamacare Website Is Going to Work This Time

#98

Post by tzs »

pdeuchler wrote: post #55
redthrowaway wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can both support building a tool to give people healthcare and be against government surveillance. Most people are able to compartmentalize their support or opposition for various government policies and do not see the doing of one thing they don't like as a reason not to support any other thing the government does.

That's kind of my question though, is how do you compartmentalize that? This may be a personal character flaw, but I definitely wouldn't be able to. The NSA revelations aren't just some small political transgressions, this is a rather world shaking development that shows we have been subject to vast, malicious (i.e. not for our good but for the good of others), and illegal surveillance that has steadily eroded many o…

> The NSA revelations aren't just some small political transgressions, this is a rather world shaking development that shows we have been subject to vast, malicious (i.e. not for our good but for the good of others)

When was it shown that this was not for our good but for the good of others? I think you may be confusing the ends and the means. If the means turned out to not be good for us, that does not mean the ends they were trying to achieve weren't for our good. It just means they failed.

Re: Why the New Obamacare Website Is Going to Work This Time

#99

Post by snowwrestler »

cryoshon wrote: post #83
dannyr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everyone tries to reconcile everything the government does, no good person would ever work for the government. If you want to change it, change it from the inside. Thats is what they are doing. People can protest on the streets or online but changing the government from the inside will be more effective.

"Changing it from the inside" is a carrot dangled in front of people to make them think that they can effect change by becoming a cog in the machine. First off, cogs don't change the machine specifically because they're limited in their function. The people who join the government to try to change it from the inside are the same people who, five years later, complain that their hands are tied and they can't effect me…

The only possible way to change a government is from the inside. Even if you have a violent revolution, what happens next? The leaders of the revolt become the leaders on the inside of the new government.

Government is not like a company you can boycott; it is an unavoidable attribute of human society. The operative questions are how are you participating in it to achieve your aims, and how effectively.

Re: Why the New Obamacare Website Is Going to Work This Time

#100

Post by waps »

pdeuchler wrote: post #80
tunesmith wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government isn't one thing. It might be worth doing some reading on systems thinking, for instance some of the writing by Donella Meadows. People inhabit a government system and they either set boundaries for themselves, or have those boundaries asserted onto them; boundaries between their area of influence and other areas of the system they consider out of bounds. If they didn't, no one would be able to focus an…

First, thanks for the book recommendation... the quickest way to my heart is giving me something interesting to read. While I mostly agree with you, it's important to realize that a single administration (speaking directly of the President, his close advisors, and officials he has put in place) has both encouraged the NSA in their actions and also produced the ACA. At what point do we write off the machinations of a…

If you honestly think like this what do you think people should do that live under more invasive governments ? Even most of Europe has more invasive data collection laws (in all European countries, the secret service and the IRS equivalent can tap/copy/... anything they want to without warrants, and any cooperation they request must be freely given on pain of imprisonment. Anybody who's worked at a Euro ISP knows this. Nobody ever mentions it for some reason)

All European ISPs must give a certain organisation a command shell (sort-of) that allows them to copy any and all traffic to a specific customer without the ISP even knowing they're doing it. They have to do this for free and provide free tech support. This is why cisco, alcatell, juniper, HP, ... both produce "lawful intercept" versions of all their network software [1]. Installation of these images in most of the world (not just Europe) is not optional.

Unlike in the US, the ISPs never get to see any warrants. Asking for that is a crime, that can land you in prison. "Obstructing" justice can also land both directors and techies in jail (ie. not promptly providing prompt tech support to idiot police officers who wonder why tapping an ADSL line does not tell them when the tapped person checks gmail on their phone). There are not allowed to be limitations. For example if you are an American customer of an ISP that operates in Europe, they can tap you (e.g. Liberty Global). And obviously, the government refuses to pay anything for the quite substantial effort required to implement all this.

ISPs only deal with a certain central organisation (it's more-or-less interpol) that basically gives open tapping to a list of European organisations that doesn't fit on a single page, and several organisations that aren't even European.

So given this, what do you think the entire European telco, government, and ... industry should do ? Keep in mind that people working for this infrastructure is probably around 50 million people.

[1] http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/switches/lan/catalyst65...

Post reply on HN