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Strongest chess player, ever

en.lichess.org

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Re: Strongest chess player, ever

#91

Post by joverholt »

runeks wrote: post #76
ronaldx wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, this would be a lot more difficult. I am slightly naive as to exactly how stockfish works, but: Computers can do a lot of accurate brute-forcing; humans must see the position in a more holistic, intuitive way. Excellent human players and excellent computer players are presumably doing completely different calculation tasks. I would suggest that computers are still bad at approaching the task in a human…

> Stockfish might be able to tell you what it was doing, but not in a way that it would be reasonable for a human to follow. I (a non-chess player) just tried to play a game against the highest level AI (and lost, obviously). Doing an analysis of the game afterwards, this is exactly what I experience: I do "f4" and I'm told (through the analysis tool) that the best move was "Nf3". Now, the obvious question this leads…

"f4" creates a hole on "e4" in your pawn structure. This hole becomes a valuable outpost where your opponent can position a knight (or other piece) without it being harassed by one of your pawns. This means to get rid of it, you need to trade a piece for it, and when your opponent recaptures, it will give them a passed pawn.

"Nf3" protects your d4 pawn and also threatens the e5 square. Probably most importantly, it clears a piece so you can castle kingside.

Re: Strongest chess player, ever

#92

Post by nandemo »

asdfologist wrote: post #53

This is extremely impressive - it's cool that talented programmers are pushing the limits of computer science to advance the state of the art of chess engines. However, I also wish that there were comparable efforts to create AIs that train humans. Basically, figure out a way to systematically, efficiently, and scalably train amateurs into masters. That IMO would be absolutely amazing (and something I'd gladly pay fo…

> a way to systematically, efficiently, and scalably train amateurs into masters.

Why do you need an AI? I don't play chess, but I suppose the above is more or less what an elite chess school provides, and you could likely reproduce it with books + practice + private lessons. That is, what Ericson calls deliberate practice and coaching.

Re: Strongest chess player, ever

#93

Post by listic »

_flag wrote: post #7
EGreg wrote: post #2

I bet it would be unnerving for someone like Kasparov or Magnus Carlsen to play this program, where it would have 1 minute on the clock and they could have the whole day. It would make many of the moves in under a second and they'd be better than the grandmasters' moves!

You can watch Magnus Carlsen play a chess program on his phone here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNvVWeHZG00 As you can tell from his commentary, he thinks the machine is rather stupid (and he is winning after the opening) but the machine is a much better calculator than he is and when the situation becomes more concrete he has to force a draw. Of course, the computer on his phone is considerably worse than the b…

Which chess engine is behind this app?

As far as I understand the app (whose avatar's age goes up to 23) actually plays better than the living world champion?

Re: Strongest chess player, ever

#94

Post by stuhood »

asdfologist wrote: post #53

This is extremely impressive - it's cool that talented programmers are pushing the limits of computer science to advance the state of the art of chess engines. However, I also wish that there were comparable efforts to create AIs that train humans. Basically, figure out a way to systematically, efficiently, and scalably train amateurs into masters. That IMO would be absolutely amazing (and something I'd gladly pay fo…

Would recommend "The Diamond Age" by Neil Stephenson, with the highly relevant subtitle: "or, The Young Woman's Illustrated Primer".

Re: Strongest chess player, ever

#96

Post by electrotype »

doughj3 wrote: post #84
runeks wrote: post #75

Has anyone else watched http://en.lichess.org/tv ? If this is two humans playing against each other in real-time, that is really impressive! It's so mind-boggling fast (mind you I'm not a chess player).

ChessNetwork on YouTube[1] has many videos of blitz chess tournaments where he provides commentary as he plays. Very interesting to watch! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YWYS209ydE

Wow, very cool!

Can someone explain what's going on at 20:24 : http://youtu.be/7YWYS209ydE?t=20m20s ?

He forks the king and the queen, then his opponent moved his queen!?! This is not a legal move right?

Re: Strongest chess player, ever

#97

Post by tree_of_item »

nandemo wrote: post #92
asdfologist wrote: post #53

This is extremely impressive - it's cool that talented programmers are pushing the limits of computer science to advance the state of the art of chess engines. However, I also wish that there were comparable efforts to create AIs that train humans. Basically, figure out a way to systematically, efficiently, and scalably train amateurs into masters. That IMO would be absolutely amazing (and something I'd gladly pay fo…

> a way to systematically, efficiently, and scalably train amateurs into masters. Why do you need an AI? I don't play chess, but I suppose the above is more or less what an elite chess school provides, and you could likely reproduce it with books + practice + private lessons. That is, what Ericson calls deliberate practice and coaching.

An AI is going to be much cheaper and faster than books + practice + private lessons.

Re: Strongest chess player, ever

#98

Post by onestone »

beefman wrote: post #61

TCEC is cool but has less statistical power than many ratings lists out there, which show that Houdini, Komodo and Stockfish are very closely matched, with Houdini having a slight edge at long time controls and a moderate edge at quick time controls. Stockfish does release more frequently and I'm not sure which version competed in TCEC, but until the lists catch up this article is fluff.

Houdini had a slight edge against Stockfish DD, which is a few months old. The latest Stockfish version (v5, very similar to the version that competed in the TCEC Superfinal) is ~60 Elo stronger, and demolishes Houdini at all time controls. It should soon start hitting the more conservative ratinglists.

Re: Strongest chess player, ever

#99

Post by doughj3 »

electrotype wrote: post #96
doughj3 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChessNetwork on YouTube[1] has many videos of blitz chess tournaments where he provides commentary as he plays. Very interesting to watch! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YWYS209ydE

Wow, very cool! Can someone explain what's going on at 20:24 : http://youtu.be/7YWYS209ydE?t=20m20s ? He forks the king and the queen, then his opponent moved his queen!?! This is not a legal move right?

Had to re-watch a couple times: on that move, white had already moved pawn from g2 to g3, the knight from d6 to e8 is a pre-move that happens very quickly (you can see the red square); while white was setting up that pre-move, black moved the queen.

Does that clarify or did I miss what you are asking?

Re: Strongest chess player, ever

#100

Post by beefman »

onestone wrote: post #98
beefman wrote: post #61

TCEC is cool but has less statistical power than many ratings lists out there, which show that Houdini, Komodo and Stockfish are very closely matched, with Houdini having a slight edge at long time controls and a moderate edge at quick time controls. Stockfish does release more frequently and I'm not sure which version competed in TCEC, but until the lists catch up this article is fluff.

Houdini had a slight edge against Stockfish DD, which is a few months old. The latest Stockfish version (v5, very similar to the version that competed in the TCEC Superfinal) is ~60 Elo stronger, and demolishes Houdini at all time controls. It should soon start hitting the more conservative ratinglists.

"Demolishes"? Hardly. It is so far tied with H4 on IPON. Even if it winds up on top, it will not be by a large margin.
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