Some people postulate the meaning of life resides in God. So I wonder then, what the meaning of God's life would be? Simply adding recursive complexity doesn't solve the question, but now you have two problems. For the record, I think the real problem is the question. It supposes that "meaning" can be something outside of what we experience and I don't believe it can be.
Good point. I think the author (and many other people) was just blinded by self-conceit and jumped to a conclusion too quickly.
The Meaning of Life
91–100 of 123 posts
Re: The Meaning of Life
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I understand the argument, then yes. And it seems rather tragic to me. One of the philosophical benefits to faith in God is that 'meaning' actually is more than just another 'meaningless' chemical reaction. There actually is a reason to live beyond just trying to stay happy. I do believe in God, I do believe there is more to life than keeping the chemical state of my body such that I feel happy and fulfilled. I do…
Are you saying that you express belief in God not because you actually believe God exists in a factual sense, but because you are unable to handle believing that God does not exist? If that's what you're saying, it seems a bit odd, even from a religious perspective. I believe that the major theistic religions teach that God (or gods) actually exist, which is to say their teachings are not just helpful but also true .
I was brought up in reasonably traditional Christian family(in the faith sense, rather than the cultural one), but always given the choice & encouragement by my parents to explore and find my own answers.
As a teenager, a lot of my friends at church were very strict hard-line evangelicals, and a lot of their attitudes irritated the crap out of me. However, my atheist, agnostic, new-age and Buddhist friends consistently were supportive and friendly to me. I felt far more at home in that environment than amongst those who (ostensibly) shared the same faith as me.
I became very disillusioned with the church, and investigated the beliefs of my friends, co-workers, and what I believed, trying to figure it out. I came to a personal belief that either
a) there is a personal/relational God, not a vague force, nor some angry judgemental law-stickler
or
b) there is no God, the limit of existence is physics. Love, relationships, meaning, etc. are all merely chemical reactions inside the 'clockwork' (for lack of a better term) bodies that we, by some weird happenstance believe that we have/are.
All the other alternatives (dualism, polytheism, paganism, Confucianism, Buddhism, etc) seemed to be either total nonsense, or wishy-washy without real answers (apologies to anyone of those positions - I'm speaking of my feelings at the time).
So with those two positions, I found that I couldn't accept that everything was meaningless - or in a "positive" light, that everything was equally meaningful. That my parents loving me was as "meaningful" as someone else's parents abusing them out of some misguided sense of discipline.
I couldn't make myself believe that. So I believe that there is some kind of moral framework that makes love "better" than hate. That makes everyone alive actually of worth, rather than simply an arrangement of atoms of equal value to a chair, or pile of primeval slime.
Either there is some kind of external person that gives meaning and relational value to people, and to the "higher" concepts of love, faith, hope, trust, acceptance, loyalty, or else there was nothing. Men who run away with younger women who meet their sexual desires could be complemented on having found satisfaction, rather than accused of disloyalty - for loyalty would be nothing more than an outmoded evolutionary advantage for helping survival.
So, I found a faith. I asked God - if he/she/it were there, what the hell the point of it all was, and if he/she/it did exist, how I could actually do something worth while with my life, and I believe they answered me.
I've been working unpaid the last 8 years for a charity (OM), raising my own sponsorship from friends/family/churches to work with this God, who I believe is trying to save humanity. I believe I have a relationship with him, that my life has purpose, and that there is a reason to exist: God loves us, but allows us to have free will (under the restrictions of physics, etc...) so that we can have a free relationship with him, un-coerced. I believe he loves me, that I love him, and that the best thing I can do is introduce others to him.
So, that's my story...
Re: The Meaning of Life
#93Here is the meaning of life. There is only one inherent value to consciousness, and it is pleasure. What is the evidence for this claim? It is directly perecptible. To see the proof of this, all you have to do is look. Everything else you value should be for the sake of this ultimate value. (Because there is no other ultimate value for them to be for the sake of.) Now, this isn't an endorsement of hedonism, which I t…
I just wonder why I should jump to a conclusion. For my intuition?
Re: The Meaning of Life
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good point. I think the author (and many other people) was just blinded by self-conceit and jumped to a conclusion too quickly.
Given that's the same conclusion the author came to, how was he "blinded by self-conceit, answering too quickly"?
Re: The Meaning of Life
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
In common terms I assume people to mean that an action was taken simply to experience pleasure. It's generally used negatively to imply that there is an emptiness and a selfishness driving the actor which I tend to dispute. I think that your second definition is both easy to support and reduced beyond usefulness. If one experiences pleasure from pain (BDSM, piercing, tattoos, or as you mentioned sacrifice) then there…
Under your proposed definition that includes sacrifice and enjoying pain, how is it possible for anyone to not be practicing hedonism? It's by definition impossible to make a choice that is not your preferred choice.
We can easily argue that we only do that which brings us pleasure with the understanding that acting on our personal morals even against our purely animal bodies gives us a greater or 'higher' pleasure...
I think this is the kind of hedonism being proposed as normal/natural/good by some people here.
I believe that there is a moral code outside of our limited personal experience, and that most of us have some sense of that. Most of us instinctively feel that killing someone is "bad", and helping an old granny across the street is "good".
Not all do, and in a purely hedonistic amoral philosophy, it's right and proper for a psychopathic sadist to hurt others, if that gives them the greatest pleasure. And then it's purely right and proper for society to stop them. But both the sadist and the society are of equal "rightness" in this wordview.
And I reject that. I believe there are moral and immoral actions. And no matter how we feel, or what we believe, there is an absolute "good" and "bad".
There's also an awful lot of gray areas. And most of us are far too judgemental and see things from our own perspective.
Re: The Meaning of Life
#96There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide - Albert Camus in The Myth of Sisyphus. Yes we can invent stupid justifications for life like 'life is about love', 'life is helping others' and a million other equally bizzare justifications but in the end its just a pointless absurdity.
Framing things that "life is about helping people" is bizarre and "in the end life is absurd and pointless" is not right, it's still trying to put human concepts on an inexplicable universe, but positioning oneself as superior to everyone else while doing so.
Re: The Meaning of Life
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given that's the same conclusion the author came to, how was he "blinded by self-conceit, answering too quickly"?
So you're asking where my ignorance came from? Well, I don't know. But I don't think I have any real reason to believe the author. :( Am I self-abased? Anyway, I like this joke: "Life is hard." (Sorry.)
Re: The Meaning of Life
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
Under your proposed definition that includes sacrifice and enjoying pain, how is it possible for anyone to not be practicing hedonism? It's by definition impossible to make a choice that is not your preferred choice.
This is the thing - without an external (to ourselves) frame of reference, all actions are equal. Killing someone, or ignoring a beggar on the street, or kissing a friend, are all equal. Whichever gives us pleasure is the best to do. We can easily argue that we only do that which brings us pleasure with the understanding that acting on our personal morals even against our purely animal bodies gives us a greater or 'h…
Re: The Meaning of Life
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good point. I think the author (and many other people) was just blinded by self-conceit and jumped to a conclusion too quickly.
Given that's the same conclusion the author came to, how was he "blinded by self-conceit, answering too quickly"?
This remind me of some words from Buddhists -- Everyone can not see the truth through other people's eyes.
Re: The Meaning of Life
#100If you are seeking meaning, consider attending an alpha course. It is a forum for atheist, agnostic, and Christian alike, on the topic of Christianity and faith. http://www.alpha.org/about From the site: Alpha really is for anyone who’s curious. The talks are designed to encourage debate and explore the basics of the Christian faith in a friendly, honest and informal environment.
I really don't understand why someone would downvote this.