What Really Happened in that Double-Blind Violin Sound Test • Hacker News Board

Re: What Really Happened in that Double-Blind Violin Sound Test

#91

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Apr 08, 2014, 2:01 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #54

dragonwriter wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Improper appeals to authority are not limited to appeals to false authority; appeal to authority to dismiss evidence are also fallacious.

This is not so; we rely on authorities because we can't judge everything ourselves. If you show me some new evidence on the role of free protons in the aging process or whatever, it's not a mistake for me to say "I'll ignore that until such time as addresses it". I might be wrong as to reality, but I can't avoid using that exact strategy in almost all of my life.

There's a difference between using authority status as a filter to find likely-to-be-valid arguments and using "so-and-so says X is not true" alone as a rebuttal to evidence that X is true. The former is a pragmatic research tool, the latter is the fallacy of appeal to authority.

Re: What Really Happened in that Double-Blind Violin Sound Test

#92

Post by Fishkins » Tue, Apr 08, 2014, 2:23 PM UTC

abalone wrote: post #90

Fishkins wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The abstract you linked does say something about identifying them: "most players seemed unable to tell whether their most-preferred instrument was new or old." And in the full text of the study: "Asked about the making-school of their take-home instruments, 17 subjects responded: 7 said they had no idea, 7 guessed wrongly (i.e., that a new violin was old or vice-versa), and just 3 guessed correctly" edit: the link to…

Yup. Maybe what happened is, since only 17 of 21 responded to that question, perhaps she was one of the 4 that didn't. It is a pretty damning study: Few could identify the old, expensive violins AND most preferred newer, cheaper violins. It means that the tradition of loaning Strats to top violinists may actually make for (slightly) worse performances. I love blind studies.

Most of the criticisms of the study are inaccurate, but I would like to see this redone with the old violins receiving the same tuning/treatment as the new ones. Depending on the condition the old violins were received in, not being allowed to tune them could have had a big impact on preference. I know I'd rather play a $50 guitar that's in tune than a $5000 one that's out of tune.

Re: What Really Happened in that Double-Blind Violin Sound Test

#93

Post by banjomonster » Tue, Apr 08, 2014, 7:48 PM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #30

pazimzadeh wrote: post #25

Because the violinists were only allowed to try the violins for one minute, this study has the same flaw that the Pepsi Challenge had in 1975: "In his book, Blink, author Malcolm Gladwell presents evidence that suggests Pepsi's success over Coca-Cola in the "Pepsi Challenge" is a result of the flawed nature of the "sip test" method. His research shows that tasters will generally prefer the sweeter of two beverages ba…

That's a serious issue. I play a stringed instrument, and purchased a "professional" model a few years ago. Among the instruments that I was trying out, some of the physical differences were sufficient that there would have been little expectation of identical sound, so the game was to discover the differences and then make a choice. There were instruments that I rejected within seconds, but others that took me upwar…

They also mention in the post that the old violins were shipped, and no adjustments made, which means bridges could be improperly positioned, sound posts in poor positions... having these properly adjusted can make the difference between a great sounding instrument and a screech.

Re: What Really Happened in that Double-Blind Violin Sound Test

#94

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 08, 2014, 11:47 PM UTC

rquantz wrote: post #33

ricardobeat wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe rare instruments like those are always kept in pristine conditions, and nowhere it is mentioned that the new ones had adjustments done, you can assume they all were received in 'normal playing condition' from their owners.

You believe wrong. Also, even if they are, traveling with an instrument, especially and old finicky one (and they do get finicky when they get old) can throw it out of adjustment, a seam can pop open, a string can go false, etc. The new ones, on the other hand, since they were actually new, were probably being maintained by their makers, who undoubtedly made sure they were in top condition when they went into competi…

[deleted]