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Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

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Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#91

Post by ryguytilidie »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #78
ryguytilidie wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a fantastically creative straw man you just beat up there... Yes, because some people are boycotting a company because their founder voted to take away their civil rights, those people are bad. Nevermind the fact that the person they're criticizing not only voted for, but provided financial support for civil rights to be taken away. But yeah, this basically means people will call for all Republicans to quit t…

You seem to imply voting for a cause is okay, but donating $1000 to promote that cause crosses a line. I find this distinction curious. Where is the line? Is it the first penny donated? The first dollar? Dollar #999 of 1000? Does the relevancy of the donation last forever, or is it subject to time decay? And maybe the CEO is more special than an ordinary employee, sure, but where do we draw the line on the person's j…

"You seem to imply voting for a cause is okay, but donating $1000 to promote that cause crosses a line. I find this distinction curious. Where is the line? Is it the first penny donated? The first dollar? Dollar #999 of 1000? Does the relevancy of the donation last forever, or is it subject to time decay?"

I didn't say that at all. You made that up and then ranted about it. I simply said that one is bad, but the other makes it even more bad. Its like anything else, doing one bad thing is bad, doing two bad things is more bad. This is pretty simple and probably doesn't require such a massive twisting of words...

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#92

Post by wyclif »

bsder wrote: post #54
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #30

I think people would be much more serene if they stopped idolizing certain programmers, computer scientists and tech people in general as demigods. As influential, intelligent and wise as they may be, they are quite fallible, and their political views are very likely to be a volatile mess, like most other people. If it's any consolation, there has yet to be a cult tech figure who is a neo-Nazi/white nationalist or an…

> The world would be a much better place if we could learn to separate the artist's work from the artist's personal deeds and opinions. In what way does that make the world a better place? Why should we celebrate an artist who does shitty things when there is almost certainly someone equally as talented who does not?

Let me know when you're going to start boycotting Picasso paintings.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#93

Post by bsder »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #63
xupybd wrote: post #49

I understand why people could get offended about this. But as I understand it most who oppose this have a religious reason to do so. Now religion is as deeply person and important to a person as is the right to marry. So where do we draw the line on what we allow others to think, believe or support? As a for instance my Aunty is vegan and is offended that I or any one else would ever eat meat. And I know eating meat…

There's actually other reasons one could support Prop 8 without necessarily being anti-LGBT. This includes an opposition to all marriage in general, or a desire to keep the traditionalist definition of "marriage" and have the same rights for non-traditional couples under a different moniker, a perceived triviality of the issue (whether rationally justified or not) and so on. I do not approve of his actions, but there…

It's kind of hard to reconcile any of those arguments with support of Prop 8.

Prop 8 very specifically changed the law against a very specific group. It wasn't maintaining status quo; it wasn't removing the state from the issue; it was placing certain people at a disadvantage.

Consequently, while there are some possibly reasonable arguments about gay marriage (getting the state out of marriage altogether being the most compelling), supporters for Prop 8 can't hide behind them.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#94

Post by DrewRWx »

lawl wrote: post #4

I totally see how this could upset people. But I'm not sure how his management qualities are tied to his political opinions. It's the same with politicans, what the fuck has an affair to do with their political views? I 100% support gay marriage. I also understand they're upset. But I don't know if this is the right reaction.

Personally, politicians' affairs only really bother me if they ran on a "family values" platform. Then it's just straight up hypocrisy, especially if they are caught in a gay affair because "family values" is a euphemism for anti-gay.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#95

Post by fletchowns »

Camillo wrote: post #65

I'd like to urge everyone to consider whether it's a good idea to comment on this story. If you voice an opinion in support of Eich, obviously that's going to be a liability in the future. But voicing an opinion against him is also a liability - there is no telling how the zeitgeist might change ten or twenty years from now. I think it's best to voice no opinion at all - and I hope this comment is not misconstrued as…

I don't think those are very good reasons to refrain from voicing your opinion. If everyone had that mentality I don't think the world would be a very good place. There's certainly a handful of instances where you should keep your opinion to yourself (such as in the workplace), this is not one of them though.

I think it's easy to predict where things are going with this topic: no discrimination and equal rights for all. That has been the steady march of progress for a very long time, and it will continue onward. Of course it doesn't happen without setbacks, but we all know where things will end up eventually, simply because it's the right thing to do.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#96

Post by zorpner »

javert wrote: post #74
redbad wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. There is a difference between voting for something and funding it. 2. There is a difference between being employed by a company and being its CEO. 3. These differences are significant.

I strongly disagree with #1.

Really? Because one is a private and one is a public act, and you might hope a potential CEO would understand that difference.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#97

Post by DanielBMarkham »

mikeash wrote: post #87
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let's play this through in an imaginary scenario. Next year I decide I like my neighbor, who's running for governor in the American Nazi party. I write him a check for $500. So now I can't work in the tech industry? Really? And this makes sense to folks? So you're saying thinking is okay, but acting is not. So is there some list of things I can and can't do and expect to have a job? Or is it just made up off-the-c…

Please come up with a different scenario, because you're never going to convince me that it's wrong to try to discourage you from putting me in a concentration camp, or taking any steps to put in power someone who would.

Sure, discourage me. Come out in the public square and let's have it out. You use your powers of free speech and persuasion and convince me I'm wrong. If I feel strongly about my opinions, I'll do the same to try to persuade you that you're wrong. Democracy at work.

Start poking around to find whatever job I have and then try to get me fired? Really? That counts as "discouragement" in your book?

You realize, of course, that there are some folks with really nasty opinions out there, folks who would do all the things you mention. Folks who would bring back slavery. And so on.

I must have missed the big public outrage over these folks where we try to get them fired and otherwise interfere with their personal and work lives because of their political opinions. I also missed the part where this became acceptable behavior.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#99

Post by hugi »

wodenokoto wrote: post #40
ender7 wrote: post #11

If this were any other company I don't think this would turn any heads. However, much of Mozilla's ethos and community support is built on ethical rather than capitalistic foundations. It's hard to reconcile thoughts on a company that seems to so value freedom in some areas but not in others [1]. [1] Inferring what Mozilla values based on the opinions of its CEO is not particularly fair , but then again I'm not sure…

I think the not in "but not in others" is over-qualifying. Saying that Mozilla does not value gay rights because of 1000 dollars, donated once, indirectly associated with Mozilla is a crazy given how much they actually spend directly on supporting the cause yearly. I'm not saying that a care package for 1.000 dollars negates Eichs contribution. But you can't say they don't value gay rights either.

What type of person you choose to head your operations obviously reflects your ideals.

It really doesn't matter if Mr. Eich donated 1000 dollars or a million dollars, he opposes basic human rights. And apparently Mozilla is fine with that.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#100

Post by asdfologist »

Camillo wrote: post #65

I'd like to urge everyone to consider whether it's a good idea to comment on this story. If you voice an opinion in support of Eich, obviously that's going to be a liability in the future. But voicing an opinion against him is also a liability - there is no telling how the zeitgeist might change ten or twenty years from now. I think it's best to voice no opinion at all - and I hope this comment is not misconstrued as…

I agree. Posting HackerNews comments in favor of gay rights is going to haunt you 20 years later, because clearly homosexuality is becoming less accepted over time.
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