Burnout • Hacker News Board

Re: Burnout

#91

Post by noname123 » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 4:48 PM UTC

agentultra wrote: post #62

My theory is that "burnout" is a symptom of the endemic "hero" meme of our culture. Think about all the movies you've seen since the 1980s, the shows you've watched, the books you've read. Embedded in the majority of them is the simple idea that there's something special inside you that can set you apart from everyone else. It whispers seductively to that part of your brain that lies to you about how important you ar…

I'll start. I want to work so hard because I want to get up on a podium someday at my high school or college podium and make a "f-you all" speech like Jerry McGuire in "Jerry McGuire" (1996). I want to make all of the guys who bullied me or dismissed me wonder looking at me how they got where they are now. I want to make all of the girls/ex'es who spurned me or laughed at me wonder why they didn't see the diamond in the rough and where they are now with their faded beauty.

I want to make all of my co-workers/bosses/peers who droned on smugly about their "weekend project" or play politics shameless/gunning for promotions that I was passed up for or social networked and got lucky and got funding because of BS skillz, feel jealous in their deepest of their hearts and acknowledge my technical prowess for a moment despite every ounce in their masculine alpha-geek conscience begrudging the idea. Like Conan the Barbarian, "What is the meaning of life? To Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their woman!"

But my conscience tells me that I have to tone it down a bit because I'm not a jock, I don't want to stoop down to the same level of those who've bullied me. I'm a sensitive hacker in every sense of the goodness and owning that word, I live in Brooklyn (but not Williamsburg); I'm not a hipster and I take my gf every weekend to the indie movie theatre and we discuss the scenes and snuggle afterwards. But then I get on the Ubuntu laptop and hack on my github repo. I'm not a jock and I'm not a hipster, I'm a sensitive hacker.

I want to start a company not for the money because once it gets big, not only will give me financial freedom but will give me an opportunity to give back to the open-source community (after all, isn't what social networking is originally about, finding an connection). I'll start a blog with a side-bar with me as the Founder of X. I'll give the traditional old media/education/gov't and even tech establishment a piece of my mind, information is suppose to be free, college is dead, employee's are companies not employees, bitcoins is the future and the establishment is just afraid of change. I'll work hard, I'll code and code some more until I ship, in between the late night hackathon and late afternoon coding hangover, I'll tweet for a break, I'll share on your FB wall, I'll reddit and share my thoughts with the community (after all, that's what coding is about, finding a connection),

I occasionally come across article about burn-outs. Of course, I've had that for sure, no correction, I've had many mental breakdowns. It makes me pause, think and re-evaluate. But I've grown wiser and stronger, I'm not that same person. I know what's important in my life. My friendships and my SO. I'm going to book a ticket on Stubhub for a show next weekend that I and my GF can go to, starred artist on her Spotify. And just booked another trip to Austin to visit my college friend, just in time for SXSW. (After all, that's what life is about, finding a connection). I and my SO taking salsa lessons and I bike on weekends to find another positive outlet to vent my frustration and energy (after all, that's what life is about, trying out new things and discovering yourself). I'm saving money consciously for a down payment for a house after reading more about passive income because I'm growing to become an adult.

I'm an responsible adult now, a sensitive hacker who hacks; And I'll code and code some more and then I'll spend some quality time with my SO.

And I will ship, that's for sure. Ship or die trying.

Re: Burnout

#92

Post by quaffapint » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 4:52 PM UTC

aintnoprophet wrote: post #71

quaffapint wrote: post #50

I've got a crappy dev job that I've been in for over a decade that only gets worse with less pay. I don't bring home enough money and have my family living paycheck to paycheck. I stress over it and keep trying side stuff to bring in more, which mostly fail. I'm working hard right now trying to get this next side project out the door in the next month. I'm in my 40s and no one in the area has raised their dev salarie…

I hear you. This is the burnout that I was hoping to read about. Not some guy that gave up all his free time to become a corporate zombie. I want a solution to our burnout not OP.

If you figure it out - please share it with us.

Maybe if we stop reading about these 300K jobs on HN, we'll have more contentment. Won't help us at all, but it's one less piece of stress :-).

Re: Burnout

#93

Post by hackerpolicy » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 4:57 PM UTC

noname123 wrote: post #91

agentultra wrote: post #62

My theory is that "burnout" is a symptom of the endemic "hero" meme of our culture. Think about all the movies you've seen since the 1980s, the shows you've watched, the books you've read. Embedded in the majority of them is the simple idea that there's something special inside you that can set you apart from everyone else. It whispers seductively to that part of your brain that lies to you about how important you ar…

I'll start. I want to work so hard because I want to get up on a podium someday at my high school or college podium and make a "f-you all" speech like Jerry McGuire in "Jerry McGuire" (1996). I want to make all of the guys who bullied me or dismissed me wonder looking at me how they got where they are now. I want to make all of the girls/ex'es who spurned me or laughed at me wonder why they didn't see the diamond in…

I'm printing this.

Re: Burnout

#94

Post by Dewie » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 5:01 PM UTC

dkhenry wrote: post #59

I am not happy doing nothing. I don't understand how you can be do content just "chilling". Now don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with recreation and spending time with your family, there isn't even anything wrong with doing nothing, if its for a purpose, but just wasting time because you can is a waste of time. You should be optimizing your time to get the most value out of it. Maybe I am just odd, but I wou…

> I guess that the difference between your vocation being your passion and it just being something to pay the bills.

Or maybe it's a passion, but not to the degree of being able to sustain that passion for much more than 40 hours a week. That's a whole lot of time doing one thing (let's not get into the details of how many of those hours are really programming, technical work, etc.). Maybe you won't call it passion since yours seems to be more "intense", but it's still much more than just-being-something-to-pay-the-bills.

Re: Burnout

#95

Post by route66 » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 5:10 PM UTC

noname123 wrote: post #91

agentultra wrote: post #62

My theory is that "burnout" is a symptom of the endemic "hero" meme of our culture. Think about all the movies you've seen since the 1980s, the shows you've watched, the books you've read. Embedded in the majority of them is the simple idea that there's something special inside you that can set you apart from everyone else. It whispers seductively to that part of your brain that lies to you about how important you ar…

I'll start. I want to work so hard because I want to get up on a podium someday at my high school or college podium and make a "f-you all" speech like Jerry McGuire in "Jerry McGuire" (1996). I want to make all of the guys who bullied me or dismissed me wonder looking at me how they got where they are now. I want to make all of the girls/ex'es who spurned me or laughed at me wonder why they didn't see the diamond in…

Considering the first half: your are playing their game, isn't it? (something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEv1L4MCHj8)

Re: Burnout

#96

Post by _zen » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 5:11 PM UTC

EC1 wrote: post #3

> A few years ago I wanted to know everything. I spent the day at work thinking about what I would do when I got home and then spend the evening studying various things as hard as I could. I would stress over how there werent enought hours in the day to do what I wanted to do. There was rarely an hour in the day where I wasnt productive in some way. Oou, this resonates with me. For the past year I've been trying to o…

You don't make any room for exercise? That's going to hurt you down the road. Your health is all you really own in life.

Re: Burnout

#97

Post by jshen » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 5:24 PM UTC

quaffapint wrote: post #90

jshen wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you in a big city? All the devs I know make good money, and their salaries have been steadily rising for over a decade. Also, all the devs I know can get a new job in a week or so. Then I hear stories like yours and wonder what the difference is. Maybe location?

It is most certainly location dependent. I'm in a standard suburb in the mid-Atlantic region (it's pretty much all the same, just different cities). I would be destitute if we lived in San Francisco. It's a very interesting, albeit depressing, time to be a dev around here. Jobs are plentiful - I get contacted by recruiters all the time. The difference is they are offering senior devs what they offered junior devs way…

Have you tried remote contract work? I know my company has a number of remote contractors making around $70-$80 per hour.

Re: Burnout

#98

Post by heurist » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 5:24 PM UTC

dkhenry wrote: post #59

I am not happy doing nothing. I don't understand how you can be do content just "chilling". Now don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with recreation and spending time with your family, there isn't even anything wrong with doing nothing, if its for a purpose, but just wasting time because you can is a waste of time. You should be optimizing your time to get the most value out of it. Maybe I am just odd, but I wou…

"You should be optimizing your time to get the most value out of it."

Why? What makes that lifestyle any better than the lifestyle where you sit back and chill?

Re: Burnout

#99

Post by tps12 » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 5:25 PM UTC

petitev wrote: post #78

thewarrior wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your theory explains half the story , atleast in my case. Programming is getting increasingly competitive and so some of the anxiety is motivated by worries about my future job security. There has never been a better time to be born as a driven and prodigious individual. There are lots of young kids today leveraging technology produce music, code , draw and animate all through the power of the internet. Eg: Today I w…

I was one of those 12 year olds hanging out on usenet and slashdot about 15 years ago. I was exposed to technology, computational/mathematical language/jargon, the social pressures of continual growth and development, and so on, at a very young age, and it is most certainly a part of my core identity. I still burnt out. I was working on my PhD in computer security and it took me 2 years to recover from 8 years of str…

> I was one of those 12 year olds hanging out on usenet and slashdot about 15 years ago. I was exposed to [goatse] at a very young age, and it is most certainly a part of my core identity.

Re: Burnout

#100

Post by chadillac » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 5:26 PM UTC

mattwad wrote: post #45

chadillac wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found the contrary to be true lately. I was a serial burnout case. I'd crank hard for 3 or 4 months and it'd take me 6 months to recover. I've found more recently that it wasn't the projects at home or at work, it was a lack of diversity. Doing the same thing when I got home that I did all day burned me out because it wasn't any different. Coming home and working of stuff I can't work on at work be it new langua…

You missed his point. His ideal job would give you enough diversity that you wouldn't feel you had to get that from outside work.

Right I get that, my job is diverse and it scratches that itch, but it does it for someone else's bottom line, I just collect a paycheck that doesn't reflect profits.

My point was even when you find that job, burnout is a thing and diversity between your work and personal projects seems to make pursuing your interests a sustainable process.

We work in an industry where we have the luxury of skinning cats in 1000s of ways, so get out of your comfort zone and sharpen your knife, it's quite enjoyable and rewarding.