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SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

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Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#91

Post by dllthomas »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #90
dllthomas wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite a bit easier to drink to that point with some drinks (higher proof) and in some contexts than others (shots vs sipping, peer pressure, distractions). I've never passed out drinking, but I've certainly wound up drunker than I expected on occasion. For someone substantially lighter than I, it could probably sneak up even easier. That said, if someone does so regularly there is probably something else going o…

> It's quite a bit easier to drink to that point... Well, that's the thing: the grandparent is judging people who drive drunk repeatedly, while he himself repeatedly drinks to the point of losing consciousness. I just don't see the difference. Why is one "sneaking up on you" any better than the other? Why does one demonstrate better judgment when inebriated than the other? > That said, if someone does so regularly th…

Mostly fair.

"Why does one demonstrate better judgment when inebriated than the other?"

Well, I do think putting yourself at risk should be judged less harshly than putting others at risk.

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#92

Post by Codhisattva »

Crito wrote: post #22
Codhisattva wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, "impaired meta-consciousness" is the problem. It's a fact of human life that when drinking, a person reaches a point where they are no longer able to make rational judgments. Not only about their actions but also about the level of impairment they are experiencing. This is why drunks are dangerous - after X drinks they look at their car and think "I've got this" when in fact they are so drunk they don't know wh…

I've been drunk enough to loose consciousness my fair share of times, but I have never been drunk enough to do something like get behind the wheel of a car. If that point of drunkenness exists for me, it exists beyond the "alcohol poisoning, facedown on the floor" point. Alcohol is often used as an excuse for poor behavior, but in practice with most people it does not have the power to induce most of the behavior tha…

For humans (and I suspect yourself included) meta-consciousness impairment occurs well before losing consciousness from alcohol poisoning.

Part of the impairment is your complete unknowing of it happening. It's cognitively a blind spot, so to speak.

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#93

Post by lotsofmangos »

MicroBerto wrote: post #67
robbyking wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> This is a city that practically endorses party behavior, and has absolutely miserable public transportation options and a sprawling suburb area I used to live in Athens, GA, and we had the same problem: nightlife drove much of the local economy, but public transportation was nearly non-existent. The number of clearly intoxicated people getting into cars was astounding to me when I first moved, having previously li…

Unfortunately, one can't build a rail line overnight. Especially when Austinites themselves voted down the larger-scale project that was on the ballot in 2000. Shot ourselves in both feet. With this city's growth, it will be very very bad for at least 20 years to come. The Mayor himself basically said so on an AMA yesterday.

You can buy and run subsidised night buses pretty quickly. The hard bit is the politics, not the logistics.

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#94

Post by nsmnsf »

jcromartie wrote: post #80
coryrc wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is letting people with DUI back on the roads. The punishments for negligent murder is only a few years; the punishment for just getting caught is often not even jail time, just a short suspension of license. (This guy had 2 DUI arrests already before murdering two people: http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2020640576_nseattleac... ) The punishments for violating license suspension are minimal. Want to…

Life in prison has got to be one of the worst ways to deal with a criminal. If you think that the danger posed by DUI is worth life in prison, then it should apply to texting/phone use too.

I don't know about the jail punishment, but I see no reason that DUI punishment shouldn't be equal to phone/text punishment (and it should certainly be a license suspension of massive length).

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#95

Post by unclebucknasty »

dllthomas wrote: post #91
unclebucknasty wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's quite a bit easier to drink to that point... Well, that's the thing: the grandparent is judging people who drive drunk repeatedly, while he himself repeatedly drinks to the point of losing consciousness. I just don't see the difference. Why is one "sneaking up on you" any better than the other? Why does one demonstrate better judgment when inebriated than the other? > That said, if someone does so regularly th…

Mostly fair. "Why does one demonstrate better judgment when inebriated than the other?" Well, I do think putting yourself at risk should be judged less harshly than putting others at risk.

>Well, I do think putting yourself at risk should be judged less harshly than putting others at risk.

Perhaps when judged externally by others. But, when the person is judging himself less harshly in a way that justifies his own questionable behavior, then it comes off as rationalization.

And, again, to say he is only harming himself is part of the fallacy that he is somehow exercising better judgment. That is, I believe that someone who exercises the poor judgement to repeatedly drink himself into unconsciousness is very much susceptible to exercising equally poor judgment, while in that inebriated state, that could result in harm to others. It just hasn't happened yet.

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#96

Post by LaGrange »

hablahaha wrote: post #89
LaGrange wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Platform screen doors are silly, faulty, expensive and pointless. I mean, the rest of your comment stands - I don't know of anybody who got hurt on my street, but that's probably because my street is only open for cars between 8 and 11 (AM, for those of you stuck with 12h clock). But platform screen doors, nope.

I think I've only ever seen platform screen doors once in my life, on the Paris metro, and I thought they were great. It ameliorated my own personal fears and general curiosity about the tracks. Why do you think they are so bad? What if they weren't faulty? On a cursory glance on Google, I don't see much except rare cases where people got stuck(?) in them? I feel like they would be reduce incidents of people/things f…

Metro is a very specific case, and that line in specific - you have a limited variety of vehicles and fully enclosed platforms. Oh, and as far as I can remember, the specific metro line is fully automated.

In practice the incidents are rare (even in case of metros, it's something you read in news papers every time it happens), and the few attempts to implement them were generally underwhelming. And, if anything, the risk of a person getting between them and the vehicle means you're just swapping risks around.

So yeah, they're costly, of dubious use, they're yet another part that can break, and a general eyesore. And, if you want dense networks (and you do, trust me on that), then increasing the amount of space required for a stop is also a Bad Thing.

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#97

Post by dllthomas »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #95
dllthomas wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly fair. "Why does one demonstrate better judgment when inebriated than the other?" Well, I do think putting yourself at risk should be judged less harshly than putting others at risk.

> Well, I do think putting yourself at risk should be judged less harshly than putting others at risk. Perhaps when judged externally by others. But, when the person is judging himself less harshly in a way that justifies his own questionable behavior, then it comes off as rationalization. And, again, to say he is only harming himself is part of the fallacy that he is somehow exercising better judgment. That is, I be…

Possibly, but I don't think this is clear at all.

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#98

Post by jakobe »

jcromartie wrote: post #83
freehunter wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder why we make cars that can go so fast. Even my car with a 1.4L engine making 100 HP can easily do 100mph, even though there's almost no place in the US where that's legal, and no place in my state where it's legal. The fastest speed limit in my state is 70mph. Why not speed-limit cars to 70mph by default, with an option to disable this limiter in a controlled fashion if the person wants to go out on a…

Speeding is not involved in the majority of fatal accidents.

That is a pretty bold statement. Pretty much all fatal accidents I've heard about involved speeding in some way. Now, anecdotes aren't reliable, so do you have some numbers to back up your claim?

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#99

Post by coryrc »

jcromartie wrote: post #80
coryrc wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is letting people with DUI back on the roads. The punishments for negligent murder is only a few years; the punishment for just getting caught is often not even jail time, just a short suspension of license. (This guy had 2 DUI arrests already before murdering two people: http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2020640576_nseattleac... ) The punishments for violating license suspension are minimal. Want to…

Life in prison has got to be one of the worst ways to deal with a criminal. If you think that the danger posed by DUI is worth life in prison, then it should apply to texting/phone use too.

It is people who knowingly put themselves in a situation where they kill people. It isn't about dealing with them, it's about protecting the rest of us from them. Typical prison may in fact be wrong -- an isolated island without vehicles where they can work and participate in society remotely would be okay for the ones who haven't murdered anyone yet.

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#100

Post by sizzle »

elipsey wrote: post #78
Crito wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe in alcoholism. I believe that anybody can develop a dependence on alcohol. I do not believe that alcohol categorically has the power to make anybody drive drunk. I don't accept "I was drunk" as an excuse for anything, unless you were unknowingly drugged.

Gotcha. Not calling it an excuse. Maybe anyone can become dependent, but not everyone _does_. I think our model of behavior ought to include the recognition that in some cases people are unable to refrain from drinking even though they know, in the abstract, that something terrible is likely to happen sooner or later. Acknowledging that alcoholism is not an excuse doesn't change the fact that some people are apparent…

well if that person gets a DUI, I'd hope the friend who helped by pass the system was implicated somehow.
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