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With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

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Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#91
post #55
post #34

Actually a free Windows OS would actually be great. Here in India, Pirated Windows OS are like as common as mosquitoes. No one but Microsoft was losing in all this. The price of Windows is generally prohibitively high and was by no way affordable to home and even small business users. The only option was to pirate them or use Ubuntu. People walk in to buy a laptop, check the difference in price for Laptops with Windo…

> If only Microsoft can make Windows affordable, they can kill all competitors instantly. Yeah maybe for the consumers market, but that's already the case with Piracy anyway. But price is not the only issue, Windows is just horrible in so many ways that there's a number of people who will not come back to it even if it's 100% free. I keep Windows (7) as dual-boot on my desktop PC, where I run OpenSuse most of the tim…

Are you trolling? What's the hardware configuration?

(Just to make things clear before what follows, I'm not a Windows fanboy and I use like 70% of the time Windows and the rest Ubuntu or Fedora. And I'd choose Linux over windows anytime. But the current state of Gnome and KDE is deplorable! ...both from a UX/I perspective and from a performance perspective. Actually the only DE that doesn't make me wanna push my fist through the display after ~30min is Xfce and it's what I daily use.)

"Default config" Windows 7 and 8 feel as responsive as KDE, Gnome or Unity to me. If you want more speed, there are lots of things to tweak and trim down, but I never felt the need, not even on very cheap netbooks! The only real performance improvements I got by tweaking were from tweaking individual app's obscure perf settings (like Matlab or Photoshop).

About "just opening a window": admitedly, windows explorer does very weird things from time to time, but just because you're on Windows it doesn't mean you have to stick with the default file manager - find one that suits you (and btw, some third party alternatives are actually faster than explorer).

Also it's a well know fact that some apps have better performance on some OSs than other: Firefox has always been visibly faster on Linux, Opera (the old Presto engine version) has always been visibly faster on Windows etc. Also, since about ~5 versions ago the Firefox devs really got their shit together and got rid of some of what seemed to me like "Windows only memory leaks" and probably did some ui thread optimizations to make things feel more responsive, so the perceived performance feels as if it increased by about ~60% on Windows, even if the actual webpage rendering speed is probably close to the same.

Again, it may seem that I'm a Windows/Microsoft fanboy, but even if feature-wise the Linux DEs are way better, if you compare each feature with its equivalent, you'll see that there are zillions of little details that Linux "failed to learn from Windows." And the current DEs seem to play some stupid iOS/MacOS-copycat-ing game instead of stealing more of the true UI/X innovation that came with Windows 8 for example (and yes, I'm actually one of the people that love the Win 8 hybrid tablet/desktop gui and apps concept - I just think that Microsoft blew it by over-geeking it, as any kind of "hybrid" UI will appeal mostly to "geeks" and much less to "average joes" that prefers a "one-piece uniform experience", even if it's really suboptimal).

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#92
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can script the OS and application install with WDS, SCCM, and AD. Just because you can't or won't do it doesn't mean it can't be done.

That's almost funny. I was too lazy to do things properly (kickstart script, etc.) so I have a bash script with about 10 "apt-get install" lines that set up everything I want on Ubuntu or debian, and a few more "echo" lines that configure 90% of my other preferences. 50 line scripts that contain very little other than the names of the programs I want or the configuration I want. Let's say I just got a new computer wi…

Chocolatey (basically apt for windows) will automatically download and install most apps I need (Browsers, media player, editors and IDEs, languages and compilers, various utilities etc.). Then Steam (installed by chocolatey) will automatically download and install all my games. I then download and install OSGeo4W which in turn will download and install a whole suite of GIS applications that I need. All my interesting files are in dropbox so they show up automatically.

Once that is done there are only a handful of other applications I need to download from respective vendors websites/git repos (Lightroom, Perfect Photo, Anaconda Python, the latest versions of Julia and Leiningen).

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#93
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I did: lack of reactivity between the time you click on something and something actually occurs on screen (talking about OS feel in general), same applications running much slower on Windows, higher general memory consumption, extreme sluggishness when running multiple applications in parallel, extensive usage of scratch disks while OpenSuse seems to be able to use RAM more effectively...

I find it hard to believe something else isn't going on because some of those things are the exact opposite of my experience. Firefox has always been more responsive on Windows. Its acceleration architecture is still more advanced on Windows. In fact, everything is more responsive and opens faster on Windows. The scheduler is way better for desktop use. Windows never becomes unresponsive for me because of background…

It's strange that we have both very much opposite experiences. I'm not sure what you are using when you mention "linux" because responsiveness depends a lot on the distro. I wouldn't use Ubuntu, for example. As for Firefox, I guess it depends on your config/RAM/processor, but i have a i5 with 4 gigs of RAM and opening Firefox with saved tabs is slow as hell on Windows 7 while much faster on OpenSuse. By the way I'm using KDE and I don't think it's that bad in terms of stability, while I have experienced a few crashes (maybe once a month or something). It's true that Windows (from 7) has become very stable, nothing like what XP used to be: it does not crash to blue screens anymore, but it still can become very sluggish when I do audio/video editing and basically nothing much runs in parallel because it's just unusable.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#94
post #86
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I did: lack of reactivity between the time you click on something and something actually occurs on screen (talking about OS feel in general), same applications running much slower on Windows, higher general memory consumption, extreme sluggishness when running multiple applications in parallel, extensive usage of scratch disks while OpenSuse seems to be able to use RAM more effectively...

I don't know, maybe it is only my experience, but I have tried Ubuntu quite a few times over the last years, on three different machines, and every single time I experienced problems, especially GPU related, speed is always an issue as well. Just try to search for something in Ubuntu and it just doesn't feel responsive. I'm in no way saying that windows is a better platform, but if you have enough RAM, it is a fast O…

I'd say it's Ubuntu, based on my experience trying many different distros.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#95
post #81
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft's interest is to ram their touch interface down your throat so that you'd get used to it, and your next phone may possibly run Windows s/Microsoft/Canonical/ s/Windows/Ubuntu/

True. Except ... I'm not paying Ubuntu for my desktop OS; and I would for my server, except they're taking it where I don't want it to go, so I don't. And ... if you don't like Ubuntu's Unity (many people don't), Gnome, KDE, Enlightenment and ten other desktop environments are basically an apt-get away. Remind me, what was the command to get rid of The-UI-formerly-known-as-Metro and use the desktop instead?

>>ten other desktop environments are basically an apt-get away.

This one thing you should never do. I once tried to apt-get shift to KDE from GNOME and then could never get Network to work ever again.

After searching the internet the only feasible option seemed to be to back up all data and reinstall the OS.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#96
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows is just horrible in so many ways Care to enumerate a couple?

I think I did: lack of reactivity between the time you click on something and something actually occurs on screen (talking about OS feel in general), same applications running much slower on Windows, higher general memory consumption, extreme sluggishness when running multiple applications in parallel, extensive usage of scratch disks while OpenSuse seems to be able to use RAM more effectively...

Sounds like something is wrong with your computer or you have really old hardware.

Maybe take a youtube video that shows this?

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#97
post #91
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If only Microsoft can make Windows affordable, they can kill all competitors instantly. Yeah maybe for the consumers market, but that's already the case with Piracy anyway. But price is not the only issue, Windows is just horrible in so many ways that there's a number of people who will not come back to it even if it's 100% free. I keep Windows (7) as dual-boot on my desktop PC, where I run OpenSuse most of the tim…

Are you trolling? What's the hardware configuration? (Just to make things clear before what follows, I'm not a Windows fanboy and I use like 70% of the time Windows and the rest Ubuntu or Fedora. And I'd choose Linux over windows anytime. But the current state of Gnome and KDE is deplorable! ...both from a UX/I perspective and from a performance perspective. Actually the only DE that doesn't make me wanna push my fis…

>Firefox has always been visibly faster on Linux

Really? Chrome has always been considerably faster on Linux but I was under the impression Mozilla always had an easier time optimising their Windows builds, at least in the past. Certainly the hardware acceleration is better on Windows.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#98
post #81
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft's interest is to ram their touch interface down your throat so that you'd get used to it, and your next phone may possibly run Windows s/Microsoft/Canonical/ s/Windows/Ubuntu/

True. Except ... I'm not paying Ubuntu for my desktop OS; and I would for my server, except they're taking it where I don't want it to go, so I don't. And ... if you don't like Ubuntu's Unity (many people don't), Gnome, KDE, Enlightenment and ten other desktop environments are basically an apt-get away. Remind me, what was the command to get rid of The-UI-formerly-known-as-Metro and use the desktop instead?

Set Windows 8 to boot to desktop and then install Classic Shell. Metro / Modern is now gone except for the occasional control panel which uses it.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#99
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Your interest is to keep an OS supported. That's not true. It's in your interest to benefit from improvements in software quality. (Certain "upgrades" from Microsoft have been anything but that, but we've certainly come a long way since Windows ME.) A product encumbered by technical debt is going to be weaker. There are certain well-defined, self-contained systems where never changing makes sense - things that will…

You copied half of my paragraph. I was specifically referring to Microsoft refusing to support DirectX and new Browsers on older operating systems. The limitation was definitely not technical - Chrome and Firefox supported 2000 and XP years after Microsoft stopped. > > Your interest is to keep an OS supported. > That's not true. That's basically always true (even if you quoted me out of context) - it is always your i…

MS has not done the old DirectX redists since 9.0c.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#100
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe something else isn't going on because some of those things are the exact opposite of my experience. Firefox has always been more responsive on Windows. Its acceleration architecture is still more advanced on Windows. In fact, everything is more responsive and opens faster on Windows. The scheduler is way better for desktop use. Windows never becomes unresponsive for me because of background…

It's strange that we have both very much opposite experiences. I'm not sure what you are using when you mention "linux" because responsiveness depends a lot on the distro. I wouldn't use Ubuntu, for example. As for Firefox, I guess it depends on your config/RAM/processor, but i have a i5 with 4 gigs of RAM and opening Firefox with saved tabs is slow as hell on Windows 7 while much faster on OpenSuse. By the way I'm u…

It is strange. I've used gentoo for years, arch, debian, ubuntu and probably others variously. All pretty similar experiences though I agree on ubuntu.
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