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Show HN: Wagtail, our new Django CMS

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Re: Show HN: Wagtail, our new Django CMS

#91

Post by porker »

SEJeff wrote: post #70
porker wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know and I agree, but I feel tests often cover the wrong thing, or what the developers feel is most important. Unit testing libraries within the system: great. Leaving the rest: not so great. Or aiming for 100% code coverage: uggh. Playing devil's advocate here: Testing the system throughout to ensure components play nicely together and that functionally the system works as expected - this is in my opinion more imp…

There are two types of tests. unit tests - most common and are tightly tied to the code. integration tests - simulate example user behavior and test the pieces work together as expected. For this type of app, selenium is the best tool for the job and splinter is an amazing python abstraction ontop of selenium. For instance, I have Jenkins setup splinter to run chrome and Firefox tests headlessly using a frame buffer…

I applaud your view. Here in the PHP universe we're only starting to exit the "Everything must be unit tested" phase of programmer evolution, and integration/functional testing is still a novelty.

I've not come across Splinter before, that looks interesting. I've been using PhantomJS via CasperJS but my tests so far have been brittle...

Re: Show HN: Wagtail, our new Django CMS

#93

Post by collyw »

jlafon wrote: post #51
porker wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a CMS that works as the client requires and has a very nice UI can't be taken seriously because it has no tests? That's a very developer focused mindset. I'm glad it's been open sourced and I hope to see tests added by them or the community, but it's not a deal-breaker for me. And if you contribute tests I hope they'll be full functional tests to spot cross-browser regressions, JS breaks and the rest ;)

Yeah, it's probably a developer focused mindset, but I'm a developer. Without a test suite, it makes it very difficult for anyone to contribute, because there isn't a clear way to tell if they broke something. How do you decide to accept a pull request? Then there is the entire issue of security. Without proper tests, how can you test that login/logout/sessions work? How can you tell if the csrf token is present? The…

Do you TDD kids never try to read and understand the code? Just assume because it passes a test it is working?

Re: Show HN: Wagtail, our new Django CMS

#94

Post by collyw »

batiste wrote: post #32
porker wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a CMS that works as the client requires and has a very nice UI can't be taken seriously because it has no tests? That's a very developer focused mindset. I'm glad it's been open sourced and I hope to see tests added by them or the community, but it's not a deal-breaker for me. And if you contribute tests I hope they'll be full functional tests to spot cross-browser regressions, JS breaks and the rest ;)

Clients do care about having a stable and bug free software. Tests is one of the best way to achieve this.

According to this, it doesn't help that much compared to other things.

http://kev.inburke.com/kevin/the-best-ways-to-find-bugs-in-y...

Re: Show HN: Wagtail, our new Django CMS

#95

Post by andybak »

tomd wrote: post #64
andybak wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looks interesting. I've got a CMS which shares some philosophical similarities to Wagtail. It's a lot clunkier and uglier though. I wish I had the time to add some polish. I think the 'pages have types' idea is spot on and something all the other Django CMS's I've seen seem to get wrong. (too much freedom for the user to create 'Frankenstein pages' by arbitrarily combining blocks). The editor and image library i…

Thank you very much for your thoughtful feedback. We're pleased with the UI but obviously it's not perfect - I've just started using slack.com which is also pretty flat but feels like a new benchmark for usability. I'll discuss it with the design team, and if you have any more specific feedback we'd love to hear it. There are still a couple of Wagtail features which rely on contrib.admin. We have to decide whether to…

Not public public but there's a Git url, I'm happy to share if you drop me an email: andy@andybak.net

Re: Show HN: Wagtail, our new Django CMS

#96

Post by batiste »

collyw wrote: post #94
batiste wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clients do care about having a stable and bug free software. Tests is one of the best way to achieve this.

According to this, it doesn't help that much compared to other things. http://kev.inburke.com/kevin/the-best-ways-to-find-bugs-in-y...

Interesting article. Although I doubt most project will have 1000 beta testers ready to fill up detailed bug reports or some benevolent code inspectors.

A couple of simple integration tests go a long way detecting the most visible bugs.

Re: Show HN: Wagtail, our new Django CMS

#97

Post by gizzlon »

gizzlon wrote: post #57

Anyone got a working dockerfile for the demo? Took a stab at it, but it doesn't work :( https://index.docker.io/u/oyvindsk/wagtaildemo-incomplete/ https://github.com/oyvindsk/docker-playground/tree/master/do...

ALmost works now:

docker run -p 8000:8000 oyvindsk/wagtail-demo

https://index.docker.io/u/oyvindsk/wagtail-demo/

Re: Show HN: Wagtail, our new Django CMS

#98

Post by SEJeff »

porker wrote: post #91
SEJeff wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two types of tests. unit tests - most common and are tightly tied to the code. integration tests - simulate example user behavior and test the pieces work together as expected. For this type of app, selenium is the best tool for the job and splinter is an amazing python abstraction ontop of selenium. For instance, I have Jenkins setup splinter to run chrome and Firefox tests headlessly using a frame buffer…

I applaud your view. Here in the PHP universe we're only starting to exit the "Everything must be unit tested" phase of programmer evolution, and integration/functional testing is still a novelty. I've not come across Splinter before, that looks interesting. I've been using PhantomJS via CasperJS but my tests so far have been brittle...

Well we used to be in the same boat and then... A new developer wrote a few new bit pieces of code that were supposed to work together. He overly unit tested each piece discretely, but they didn't work together. So when we pushed it out to staging and I manually tried to look at things, the entire design was wrong and would never work.

From then on, the next task said individual worked on was setting up selenium and write integration tests. Now we are in a pretty sweet place.

We have unit tests, which verify each discrete thing works as it is expected to and make refactoring large swaths of code a breeze. Then we have integration tests, which run on IE (in a windows vm that is on our build server), firefox, and chrome via xvfb. It even helps us catch those obnoxious conditions where javascript runs fine in "real browsers" and fails on IE's lameness. Give it a try :)

Re: Show HN: Wagtail, our new Django CMS

#99

Post by tomd »

tomd wrote: post #58
Ricapar wrote: post #54

Quick tip on the video: I felt it moved a little too quickly. I tried keeping up with the text, and it seemed to get pulled away from me as I was about 2/3rds through each time. At the end I was slightly dizzy :/

Thanks for the feedback. It's my fault - I kept asking our video guy to speed it up! We're working on a proper 3 minute walk through right now. It should be ready in the next day or so.

Here's the promised walk-through: https://vimeo.com/86719782
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