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Dogecoin market manipulation?

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Re: Dogecoin market manipulation?

#91

Post by mcphilip »

smtddr wrote: post #77
mcphilip wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not having skin in the game, this is fascinating to follow. It's like watching primitive HFT algorithm battles slowed down to meatspace actor speed. I think it's safe to say that there are some participants in crypto currencies making massive percentage gains using lessons learned on Wall Street. Which leads to an interesting thought: has someone figured out how to judge when an emerging crypto currency gains enough…

>>I think it's safe to say that there are some participants in crypto currencies making massive percentage gains using lessons learned on Wall Street. Understatement of the year and it's only January. ;) That's pretty much everything of crypto coins right now, especially alt-coins(any coin that isn't bitcoin). The inexperienced people prone to fear-driven reaction are getting fleeced.

>Understatement of the year and it's only January. ;)

Yeah, an understatement for sure. I can only imagine what will be afoot in December... Wild guess: ransomware used to drive up the price of an alt-coin.

Re: Dogecoin market manipulation?

#92

Post by cookingrobot »

sliverstorm wrote: post #46
XorNot wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gambling is when the game is purely driven by luck. Investing is when the instrument has measurable properties and explanations for why it will become more valuable - i.e. you invest in making your factory larger, so it can produce product more cheaply. Betting on completely unregulated currency markets (which have good reasons that they shouldn't have any value at all) is gambling, because you're entirely depending…

Investing has a luck component to it as well. The way I like to think of it is, it's gambling when your expected rate of return is negative or zero. It's investing when it is positive. This is why a gambler is gambling, but a casino is investing/running a business.

Gambling and market speculation (and even theft) are related in that they're all 0 sum games. Every dollar you make is a dollar someone else wishes they hadn't lost. Investing is different in that when you win and earn a return, nobody feels that they lost.

Re: Dogecoin market manipulation?

#93

Post by Anderkent »

fleitz wrote: post #13
Alex3917 wrote: post #5

Meh. The only reason the price is as low as it is currently is that A) $850,000 needs to be added to the market every single day just to keep the price stable B) Coinbase et al. literally can't convert dollars to BTC fast enough. The situation is similar to how whenever Apple releases a new iPhone, it takes literally months until there is enough supply to match the demand. While this market manipulation is blatantly…

People are free to coordinate their trades as private players on the market. While it may be illegal I see nothing unethical about it. The entire point of the fucking market is to amass enough capital that you're not 'picking' stocks, if you're trading without an edge I really don't know what to tell you.

The entire point of the fucking market is to share information. Pump and dump schemes are not information, they're noise.

Re: Dogecoin market manipulation?

#94

Post by jbellis »

joosters wrote: post #63
XorNot wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gambling is when the game is purely driven by luck. Investing is when the instrument has measurable properties and explanations for why it will become more valuable - i.e. you invest in making your factory larger, so it can produce product more cheaply. Betting on completely unregulated currency markets (which have good reasons that they shouldn't have any value at all) is gambling, because you're entirely depending…

Not at all. Is betting on a football match purely luck? Of course not, there's the skill of the teams and luck involved. Investing == gambling. You can buy shares. Or you can make a bet with a spread-betting financial company that pays out in the same way that the shares do. We call one investing and other gambling, but there is no difference.

The crucial distinction is that buying shares is not a zero sum game; it's possible for all investors to "win."

This is not the case in gambling or commodities markets; for me to win, someone else has to lose.

Re: Dogecoin market manipulation?

#97

Post by [deleted] »

mcphilip wrote: post #75
socillion wrote: post #14

I'm not sure why it's on HN, but it's real. It was originally happening in the public channel #dogecoin-market on Freenode but was then moved to the private channel #marketmakers, which seems to have spurred people to start sharing it everywhere since now it's private. Wolong is the guy who brought the Dogecoin price to where it is now by investing a ton of money into it, and due to that and some charisma he's attrac…

Not having skin in the game, this is fascinating to follow. It's like watching primitive HFT algorithm battles slowed down to meatspace actor speed. I think it's safe to say that there are some participants in crypto currencies making massive percentage gains using lessons learned on Wall Street. Which leads to an interesting thought: has someone figured out how to judge when an emerging crypto currency gains enough…

[deleted]

Re: Dogecoin market manipulation?

#98

Post by ycui1986 »

tlrobinson wrote: post #87
hueving wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would make sense if every miner immediately sold every coin he/she mined.

Miners have to pay for electricity and hardware. I doubt they're doing that with Dogecoins.

Doge had been the most profitable altcoin to mine several times in the past couple months.

Re: Dogecoin market manipulation?

#99

Post by thechut »

This is the exact same thing that happened in bitcoin markets early on.

When the capitalization of the market is so low and a small number of people control a large amount of the currency/commodity there really isn't much you can do about it.

Re: Dogecoin market manipulation?

#100

Post by joosters »

jbellis wrote: post #94
joosters wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. Is betting on a football match purely luck? Of course not, there's the skill of the teams and luck involved. Investing == gambling. You can buy shares. Or you can make a bet with a spread-betting financial company that pays out in the same way that the shares do. We call one investing and other gambling, but there is no difference.

The crucial distinction is that buying shares is not a zero sum game; it's possible for all investors to "win." This is not the case in gambling or commodities markets; for me to win, someone else has to lose.

Why is that different from share deals? There's a buyer and a seller... if one of them wins, the other by definition must lose.

Call whatever you do 'investing' if it makes you happy, but as I said before, you can replicate financial 'investments' with spread-betting 'bets' and you will make the same gains and losses.

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