HP brings Windows 7 back 'due to popular demand' as buyers shun Windows 8 • Hacker News Board

Re: HP brings Windows 7 back 'due to popular demand' as buyers shun Windows 8

#91

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Jan 21, 2014, 7:15 PM UTC

JeremyNT wrote: post #90

Encosia wrote: post #55

The Windows 8 (especially post-8.1) pushback baffles me. If you put any effort at all into learning how to use it effectively, the acclimation period is definitely shorter than Win95 or WinXP was. I use it on a desktop machine with two 30" displays and only mouse/keyboard inputs (i.e. no touch). You certainly couldn't pay me $150 to go back to Win7 at this point. I even find that I use Metro apps on my desktop fairly…

The issue with Windows 8 isn't that it's unusable, obviously it can be used. The issue is that the changes to the desktop were made in service of a use case (that is: a full screen, mono-tasking, touch-based mode) that doesn't really seem to exist on a desktop computer, and so the changes do not improve anything for most people using traditional systems. Changing the way a UI functions has a cost to the user, and use…

> but I think it would be difficult to argue that many users actually find the experience objectively better.

Well, yes, it would be difficult to argue that, starting with that what users find to be better is by definition subjective, not objective, so to argue that would be self-contradictory from the gate.

Re: HP brings Windows 7 back 'due to popular demand' as buyers shun Windows 8

#92

Post by JeremyNT » Tue, Jan 21, 2014, 7:18 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #91

JeremyNT wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with Windows 8 isn't that it's unusable, obviously it can be used. The issue is that the changes to the desktop were made in service of a use case (that is: a full screen, mono-tasking, touch-based mode) that doesn't really seem to exist on a desktop computer, and so the changes do not improve anything for most people using traditional systems. Changing the way a UI functions has a cost to the user, and use…

> but I think it would be difficult to argue that many users actually find the experience objectively better. Well, yes, it would be difficult to argue that, starting with that what users find to be better is by definition subjective, not objective, so to argue that would be self-contradictory from the gate.

Thank you for your correction. I have removed the incorrect term from my comment.

Re: HP brings Windows 7 back 'due to popular demand' as buyers shun Windows 8

#93

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Jan 21, 2014, 7:30 PM UTC

JeremyNT wrote: post #90

Encosia wrote: post #55

The Windows 8 (especially post-8.1) pushback baffles me. If you put any effort at all into learning how to use it effectively, the acclimation period is definitely shorter than Win95 or WinXP was. I use it on a desktop machine with two 30" displays and only mouse/keyboard inputs (i.e. no touch). You certainly couldn't pay me $150 to go back to Win7 at this point. I even find that I use Metro apps on my desktop fairly…

The issue with Windows 8 isn't that it's unusable, obviously it can be used. The issue is that the changes to the desktop were made in service of a use case (that is: a full screen, mono-tasking, touch-based mode) that doesn't really seem to exist on a desktop computer, and so the changes do not improve anything for most people using traditional systems. Changing the way a UI functions has a cost to the user, and use…

> The issue is that the changes to the desktop were made in service of a use case (that is: a full screen, mono-tasking, touch-based mode) that doesn't really seem to exist on a desktop computer, and so the changes do not improve anything for people using traditional systems.

I think that's not entirely true. The Metro design language isn't really about monotasking and wasn't really about mobile, and I think the idea of adopting as a unified cross-platform experience -- though its a pretty big break from the traditional windowing interface -- had some very good reasons and makes sense even on the desktop. The overlapping windows of the traditional desktop approach are, IMO, a pretty bad UI thing that we've all gotten used to, but something like Metro could do better...

The particular way the implementation worked out in Win 8 originally -- and this has been mitigated somewhat in Win 8.1 -- is still way too mobile focussed, and the sharp break with traditional desktop apps in seperate environments was a horrible UX choice. But I think the problem there was trying as much about pushing vendors to produce Windows Store apps and support WinRT (and, supporting Microsoft's getting yet another cut of the application money, on top of what they get selling the essential dev tools for the platform), as optimizing the UI for mobile.

I suspect that something like Metro really is the interface of the future -- even on desktop-like systems -- but it may take someone other than Microsoft to first implement it right.

Re: HP brings Windows 7 back 'due to popular demand' as buyers shun Windows 8

#94

Post by robertfw » Wed, Jan 22, 2014, 8:48 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #59

robertfw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 8 is the most unusable collection of software I have ever had the misfortune of fighting. It is the worst experience I have ever had with an operating system, coming from experience with dos, windows 3.1-95-xp-vista-7, ubuntu, and arch. The built in apps feel like MVPs. The interactions are unintuitive, and many things that should "just work" smack you in the face time and time again. the whole thing feels li…

I very recently had to help someone who was using a new Win8 laptop, and it's amazing how much the little things matter - like the title bar's text being centred. I had several notepads open and it was difficult to see which one was which file, because with the text at the edge I would usually leave that edge of the window sticking out beneath the others, but with the title centred I can't see the filename from eithe…

I've also helped a few people with Windows 8 and they are just lost, lost, lost - it is a very confusing interface to use. It catches me out all the time and I consider myself fairly adept at these things.