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BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

bbc.co.uk

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Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#91

Post by dkokelley »

jules wrote: post #70
dkokelley wrote: post #69

"One 2013 study by the Eno Center for Transportation suggested that if 10% of cars on US roads were autonomous this could reduce fatalities by about 1,000." This doesn't quite seem right. How does a 10% shift towards autonomous vehicles only equate to a 2% decrease in fatalities? Why wouldn't this scale linearly?

Who says it doesn't scale linearly? That certainly can't be concluded from the sentence you cited. Are you assuming that self driving cars result in 0 fatalities?

Roughly, yes. I'm assuming that at 100% autonomous cars there will be ~0 fatalities. From the article, at ~0 autonomous cars, there are 50,000 fatalities annually. I guess I'm just curious as to the curve that dictates the relationship between autonomous car adoption rate and annual vehicular fatalities.

I found the study referenced, but I haven't quite found their methods.

http://www.enotrans.org/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/downloadable...

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#92

Post by JshWright »

angersock wrote: post #76

So, as a cyclist that commutes to work everyday on my bike--are any of these manufacturers making sure that their vehicles don't squish pedestrians, or even worse, people on bikes?

They will, in fact, do a much better job of it than a human driver.

An automated car will detect the obstacle faster, make a better decision on evasive maneuvers (based on a much better understanding of the current conditions), and apply that decision _much_ faster than a human driver could.

I mentioned this elsewhere in the thread, but a modern car processes a collision _very_ quickly. It detects it, decides what to do about it (which airbags to fire, which seatbelt pretensioners to deploy, etc), and implements those safety measures _before the driver is aware the collision has occurred_. Apply that same processing latency to evasive maneuvers and you'll see just how much safer automated cars can be.

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#93

Post by ohazi »

snake_plissken wrote: post #82

There is all this talk about safety but isn't drifting your car inherently dangerous? It's not like you're drifting your car around turns on your way to work. And if you are, you're a jackass and putting everyone else at risk.

The benefit comes from automated driving systems being able to handle emergency out-of-control situations safely and predictably, not in regularly being driven around like this.

Let's say you're in a self-driving car and get pegged and flung across a highway by another car going 20 mph faster than you. In this case, a driver with high performance training would be better able to land the crash than an average driver that panics and makes unsafe corrective inputs.

You want the self-driving car to be able to respond like the high performance driver, which means knowing how to safely drift.

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#94

Post by darklajid »

ollysb wrote: post #29
dcc1 wrote: post #16

This is bad news (despite being a BMW owner) In future driving will no longer be fun, if you want to drive "non-automated" car or disable "auto-pilot" your insurance company will automatically jack up your premium, since they would consider self driving cars "safer"

I can't see any reason why we can't have both; you control the car until it detects a dangerous situation and then takes over. Sounds ideal really, you could go faster than you can now, safe in the knowledge that if things go bad the computer will kick in and take over.

This is already the case today, albeit limited.

My Audi

- makes the steerwheel vibrate if I veer off my lane, actively works against that (limited 'self-steering', but really, really crappy, useless and stupid in its current incarnation)

- has lights in the side mirrors that light up when someone's left or right behind of me. If I set the turning signal to a 'blocked' direction, the lights flash. This system is immensely satisfying for me, works awesome.

- stops the car on its own if it believes that a crash cannot be avoided and while I still go 30km/h or less. It breaks _immediately_

- issues a high pitched warning noise if it assumes that a collision might be imminent but outside of the safety zone (> 30km/h)

- supports automated cruising control, that breaks/accelerates on its own, depending on the traffic ahead and to the side (it won't overtake a car while you're right of it).

That said: I love driving. I love leisure rides, love to drive on the Autobahn. That car's rather 'slow' (compared to previous company cars) and tops out at 220km/h. When it is safe I really like to drive at that speed.

I think the resistance to self-driving cars is based on mistrust (you give up control, after all) and ego mostly - but it doesn't help the industry or supporters of that idea to paint everyone that likes to drive as a potential 2 ton bullet. A little perspective on both sides would help a lot here.

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#95

Post by TeMPOraL »

dockd wrote: post #89

It would be nice if the auto manufacturers spent the effort on making their existing products better before they distract themselves with these projects. Case in point? My car uses 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles (123K on the odometer) with a perfect maintenance record, and the manufacturer say this is Normal. Raise your hand if you like to stop in the middle of a family outing to pour a quart of oil into your car. O…

> It would be nice if the auto manufacturers spent the effort on making their existing products better before they distract themselves with these projects.

Actually, any effort expended on bringing closer the time human-controlled cars are banned from public roads is a Good Thing. As in, lots of fuel, time and human lives saved. Can't wait.

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#96

Post by barrkel »

ewoodrich wrote: post #28
barrkel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of all your enjoyment is your own life; you too will die. It depends on how much pleasure you get out of driving. I certainly think it's worth some fraction of a life. And of course, a certain amount of the risk comes from inattentive drivers who don't enjoy driving, and would rather read a book or eat cereal (or both) on the road.

Car accidents have unfortunate side effects, in that generally more than one driver's life is put at risk.

Indeed. That's why I ride motorcycles instead.

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#97

Post by sukuriant »

stefan_kendall wrote: post #45
peterwwillis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this will be the case. Automated driving is only useful if you know where you're going. If you're on a leisurely ride through the country or are looking for a place with no address, you can't use automated navigation. So disabling it would be a necessity for a variety of driving purposes. As an aside, motorsport enthusiasts would be up in arms if they had to pay a premium just to be able to drive their…

Please stop "leisure driving". Traffic is a tremendous drain on my life as it is with superfluous cars on the road.

Leisure driving isn't usually done on roads that are full of other cars all in gridlock trying to get home. It'll be on those same roads at much later times in the day, when the traffic is thinner, or it'll be off on a country road or mountain pass somewhere.

I love to drive. I do not enjoy dealing with major backups. When I'm leisure driving, it's out to a small town in the middle of nowhere later in the afternoon or when everyone is at work; or, it's out in the boonies because wow that view when I take a certain turn is just absolutely spectacular.

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#98

Post by sukuriant »

alphydan wrote: post #52
peterwwillis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this will be the case. Automated driving is only useful if you know where you're going. If you're on a leisurely ride through the country or are looking for a place with no address, you can't use automated navigation. So disabling it would be a necessity for a variety of driving purposes. As an aside, motorsport enthusiasts would be up in arms if they had to pay a premium just to be able to drive their…

> If you're on a leisurely ride through the country or are looking for a place with no address, you can't use automated navigation. I don't think those are impossible problems to solve. For the leisurely ride, define a radius or area and let the car do a 'random' walk (or ride on only small roads), or visit beautiful spots where g+ users have shared pictures, etc. For a place with no address, give a lng,lat or drop a…

I like controlling the car around those leisurely bends. Feels good to experience the wheels rotating in a certain way around a banked turn WITH an amazing view.

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#100

Post by sukuriant »

rayiner wrote: post #33
dcc1 wrote: post #16

This is bad news (despite being a BMW owner) In future driving will no longer be fun, if you want to drive "non-automated" car or disable "auto-pilot" your insurance company will automatically jack up your premium, since they would consider self driving cars "safer"

As a BMW owner myself, I say: "good riddance to driving being fun." I used to get a kick out of it when I was younger, but now that I'm married with a kid it's just an exercise in paranoia and frustration. People are fucking nuts in the way they drive. My friend just got T-boned hard enough to flip his car 360 degrees a couple of months ago, by some asshole speeding in the shoulder as traffic was backed up. I see an…

"by some asshole speeding in the shoulder as traffic was backed up."

fun driving and reckless endangerment of the people on the road around you, including aggressive disregard for the rules of the road, especially driving on the shoulder are two very, very, very different things.

Raise the speed limits and make fines and enforcement more frequent for not using turn signals, aggressive lane-changing where other people are on the road, tail-gating, driving in the shoulder (REALLY???) and so on.

Oh, and make that driving test harder.

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