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Will Work for Food and Lodging

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Will Work for Food and Lodging

#91

Post by robotresearcher »

grey413 wrote: post #90
macrael wrote: post #70

I think that, in America at least, one of the few professions where this truly is alive and well is medicine. After four years of training you become a Doctor, but then you spend the next 3-5 years as a resident before you start to actually practice. Hospitals are these complex learning institutions where people in various stages of training are involved in everything to keep them learning.

Academia in general sticks surprisingly close to the guild model. You have professors as masters, postdocs as journeymen, grad students as apprentices, and undergraduates as initiates.

And the tenure track Assistant Professor position gives you five years as an apprentice master.

Re: Will Work for Food and Lodging

#92

Post by dragonwriter »

grey413 wrote: post #90
macrael wrote: post #70

I think that, in America at least, one of the few professions where this truly is alive and well is medicine. After four years of training you become a Doctor, but then you spend the next 3-5 years as a resident before you start to actually practice. Hospitals are these complex learning institutions where people in various stages of training are involved in everything to keep them learning.

Academia in general sticks surprisingly close to the guild model. You have professors as masters, postdocs as journeymen, grad students as apprentices, and undergraduates as initiates.

Academia is designed on the guild model, though the original correspondences are more: undergraduate students = apprentices, graduate students = journeymen, graduate degree holders = masters

Re: Will Work for Food and Lodging

#93

Post by randomdata »

aestra wrote: post #89
randomdata wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not everyone can be a grandmaster in chess or win the Olympic marathon Why do the taught need to be the best of the best for the parent's statement to be valid? Can you not successfully learn how to play chess without being the sole grandmaster?

There isn't a sole Grandmaster, it's a title that represents the top players. In Dec 2008 there was 1,192 Grandmasters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_%28chess%29 The requirements for becoming a Grandmaster are somewhat complex. A player must have attained an Elo rating of at least 2500 (although they need not maintain this level to obtain or keep the title). In addition, at least two favorable results (cal…

> Or is it just possible that some people can do things that other people can't!?

You are talking about degrees of mastery, the parent was talking about doing it in any capacity. It is quite possibly true that only some can become the best chess players in the world, but is there anything stopping the vast majority of the population from playing chess? The latter is the attitude many hold, which he found disconcerting.

> I find this as a mostly insulting term

That may be a fair, but it was clearly added to defend against nit-picking comments like "my aunt is in a coma" or "my friend has no legs".

Re: Will Work for Food and Lodging

#94

Post by danomite40 »

declan wrote: post #75
macrael wrote: post #70

I think that, in America at least, one of the few professions where this truly is alive and well is medicine. After four years of training you become a Doctor, but then you spend the next 3-5 years as a resident before you start to actually practice. Hospitals are these complex learning institutions where people in various stages of training are involved in everything to keep them learning.

Good point. Also Canadian lawyers fresh out of law school go through a one year journeyman program -- it's called "articling." http://www.lsuc.on.ca/articling/ If you poke around, I bet that more professions than you initially suspect have formal or informal apprenticeship or training programs. I've hired reporters who have previously gone through internships or entry-level jobs, which served that purpose. In Califor…

Clinical Psychologists go through something similar too. My girlfriend's PhD program is 5 years of classes and training, and giving therapy under supervision in the clinic under the school's umbrella as well as supervised therapy off-site at hospitals, clinics, and other institutions. Then, she must do a 1 year internship somewhere else (very typically requires relocation). After that she has her PhD but then must "post-doc" for a few years somewhere else (again, typically relocating). Only then can she become licensed.

Re: Will Work for Food and Lodging

#95

Post by _delirium »

dragonwriter wrote: post #92
grey413 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academia in general sticks surprisingly close to the guild model. You have professors as masters, postdocs as journeymen, grad students as apprentices, and undergraduates as initiates.

Academia is designed on the guild model, though the original correspondences are more: undergraduate students = apprentices, graduate students = journeymen, graduate degree holders = masters

Yeah, the traditional distinction between professors and degree holders who aren't professors wasn't part of the guild-training system, but probably better maps onto an idea like patronage. Someone who completed the doctorate was "done" with the training process, a certified master fully licensed to hold lectures and supervise theses. But this did not in itself come with any salary or position. The exact situation varied by country, but in Germany such a person might be a Privatdozent, someone who earned a living by giving lectures (often traveling from university to university) and tutoring students. That's somewhat analogous to a master painter who subsequently earned a living from portrait commissions.

A professor then is simply a master who, rather than earning a living as a craftsman, has a position and salary paid by a patron or institution. One might compare to a painter who became a salaried court painter, or one who received regular stipends from the Académie de peinture et de sculpture, rather than earning an income from seeking commissions or giving lessons.

I think the common way people view the situation has changed in part because these craft occupations are more difficult to sustain, so you're not really seen as "done" until you've landed a regular full-time job. Like being a painter without a salary, being a lecturer without a salary is nowadays a very precarious position. There used to be enough wealthy patrons paying enough in portrait commissions and tutoring fees for such careers to be make for a decent middle-class living, but it's not a common career anymore, so now people typically either look for a full-time academic position, or look for a full-time job elsewhere. You can temporarily hang around academia as an adjunct lecturer, but it's not a good or stable living.

Re: Will Work for Food and Lodging

#96

Post by aestra »

randomdata wrote: post #93
aestra wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't a sole Grandmaster, it's a title that represents the top players. In Dec 2008 there was 1,192 Grandmasters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_%28chess%29 The requirements for becoming a Grandmaster are somewhat complex. A player must have attained an Elo rating of at least 2500 (although they need not maintain this level to obtain or keep the title). In addition, at least two favorable results (cal…

> Or is it just possible that some people can do things that other people can't!? You are talking about degrees of mastery, the parent was talking about doing it in any capacity. It is quite possibly true that only some can become the best chess players in the world, but is there anything stopping the vast majority of the population from playing chess? The latter is the attitude many hold, which he found disconcertin…

>is there anything stopping the vast majority of the population from playing chess?

I don't play Chess, so I'm going to make an assumption here that the rules are somewhat complex? I am also going to say something pretty not PC.

Yes, I'm sure there are lots of people I have met in my life that can't be taught to play Chess.

I used to work in a restaurant and I trained new hires, you wouldn't believe the incompetence of the people who we hired. That place was a revolving door, we only kept maybe 20% of the people I trained, maybe less. We were asking them to serve customers and memorize many things, simple tasks for me, but very hard tasks for most of the people I trained. After maybe a month or so the incompetent ones got fired for not being able to do the job. They probably only could work somewhere where they did very simple tasks. I hated it because I always had to train, and I didn't like training, but I had to train anyways, because I was the best one there at training, said my boss.

99% of them seemed like they were really trying. Most if not all of them needed the job (why else would you work at a restaurant for low pay?)

He hired knowing most of the people he hired weren't going to work out.

That's just one example.

Re: Will Work for Food and Lodging

#97

Post by cperciva »

dragonwriter wrote: post #92
grey413 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academia in general sticks surprisingly close to the guild model. You have professors as masters, postdocs as journeymen, grad students as apprentices, and undergraduates as initiates.

Academia is designed on the guild model, though the original correspondences are more: undergraduate students = apprentices, graduate students = journeymen, graduate degree holders = masters

undergraduate students = apprentices, graduate students = journeymen, graduate degree holders = masters

Closer, but still not quite right. The concept of graduate students is quite a recent one; and until recently the MA was the standard undergraduate degree.

This is still seen at Oxford and Cambridge: After 3 years of study, you write examinations and receive the BA, whereupon you leave the university; 4 years later, you receive the MA. (And until very recently, upon applying to receive the MA you had to certify that you had "continued to practice" in the intervening years.)

Re: Will Work for Food and Lodging

#98

Post by cperciva »

jacquesm wrote: post #11
graeme wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see it, and I don't have showdead on or any special features.

Ok, thanks for confirming. So the ban really is limited to posting articles. Interesting. That's a first probably, to be able to comment but not to be able to post.

Interesting -- I had a submission autodeaded a few days ago too, but I assumed it was the site (infoworld.com) rather than my account which had been banned.

Re: Will Work for Food and Lodging

#99

Post by tcdent »

I applaud your appreciation for diversity.

Taking it a step beyond occupation alone, I currently believe it to be a necessity for a healthy and contented life; specialization, due to imbalance, causes harm. Excessive amounts of one type of physical activity (say, running) can cause tissue damage, excessive amounts of most foods (including water) can be toxic, excessive sleep even has shown to be harmful, etc.

The only way to avoid overdoing one activity, is to incorporate more of them. Don't think of this as a purely physical practice, either; casual reading, learning and thinking apply as well.

This is not easily accomplished when one is expected to devote a majority of their waking hours to a specialized task, however. Nomadism seems to compliment this way of thinking well, as does homesteading.

Re: Will Work for Food and Lodging

#100

Post by _delirium »

theorique wrote: post #68
reqres wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're 100% entitled to do what you want with your own property but please consider the view that domain names are important and finite resources and should be put to good use :)

How does this differ from: "You're 100% entitled to do what you want with your own property but please consider the view that gold is an important and finite resource and should be put to good use" Or any other commodity.

In the early 'net there was an ethos that the domain names system was an identifier service, not property. A domain name was an identifier that could be requested as needed, and in return for payment of a nominal fee would be delegated to the requester. The requester should then, if following netiquette, relinquish the identifier when no longer needed.

If instead the initial registration was taken as the sale of a commodity, the original way they were distributed didn't make a lot of sense. It would've made more sense to auction them off at fair market value, rather than registering new domains first-come/first-serve for a nominal fee.

I suppose that ship has long since sailed, though a few ccTLDs still retain that position, at least officially. DK Hostmaster's policy statement says that Domain names cannot be purchased, but borrowed. In other words, by registering a .dk domain name, you have acquired the right to use it. However they've given up trying to enforce that, and allow this "right to use" to be fully transferable, making it quasi-property. They still maintain a vestigial waitlist by which you can register to be next in line to receive a domain when the original owner relinquishes it, but this is in practice no longer used for anything that's in demand.

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