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Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

michael.richter.name

91–100 of 243 posts

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#91
"In well over two years I have contributed nothing to StackOverflow: no questions, no answers, nothing. (Well, that's not true. When my score went over 10,000 I tried out the moderator powers for a couple of edits, just to test them out.) Over one third of my reputation was "earned" from me doing absolutely nothing for over two years."

So what? Apparently his answers were valuable enough and saved the time (and nerves) of many programmers who faced similar obstacles as original posters...

It seems only right to me that a great answer, a canonical answer, like - say - this one: http://stackoverflow.com/a/101561/168719 - can be fuelling its author's reputation long after it was written. Because it holds some universal value, unlike (say) a solution to a short-lived problem with NetBeans 6.1.

"Indeed I went from the top 4% of contributors at my time of departure to the top 3%"

OMG, I didn't realize this issue was so serious.

Now that's just horrible, somebody better stop this madness quick!

(I can't help but read his rant in Sheldon Cooper's voice ;) )

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#93

SO must change their rules to make those who downvote or vote to close to give their reasons, and they should give the OP enough time to amend the question or explain themselves if the question is not clear enough.

You already do have to give a reason for closing a question. That reason is displayed when a question is closed. You have plenty of time to edit your question to make it clear before it's deleted. Once you edit it, it can be reopened.

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#94

The author's main problem stems from his desire to use Stack Overflow as a mechanism for gaining internet points - as is illustrated by his confession that "I saw a simple Java question, hit Google, read briefly, then synthesized an original answer." Why bother? Instead, I use Stack Overflow predominantly for three reasons -- 1. To ask interesting questions that I think will get a better answer there than anywhere el…

How many good questions do you see that are "CLOSED AS NOT A REAL QUESTION"? The site is fine for what it is, but there's definitely a market for building a better StackOverFlow.

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#95
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that it's silly to care about how many points you have in the first place.

It doesn't matter how silly you think it is. You don't create a system that reinforces bad behavior and then say "oh, but you should magically turn off your human nature and do the opposite of the what the system teaches you to do". Systems need to be designed to reinforce good behavior, otherwise we get reddit and HN and wikipedia and SO.

All systems that reinforce some behaviors reinforce some bad behaviors.

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#96

The author's main problem stems from his desire to use Stack Overflow as a mechanism for gaining internet points - as is illustrated by his confession that "I saw a simple Java question, hit Google, read briefly, then synthesized an original answer." Why bother? Instead, I use Stack Overflow predominantly for three reasons -- 1. To ask interesting questions that I think will get a better answer there than anywhere el…

> The author's main problem stems from his desire to use Stack Overflow as a mechanism for gaining internet points

Nope. His argument is that the site encourages its users to behave that way and that this results in several very real, relevant, negative impacts on the usefulness of the site and the quality of the answers (and questions).

Your suggestions are not a sufficient solution for the problems he describes.

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#97
I think the biggest problem is not "creeping authoritarianism" or the low quality of quite some questions / answers.

The biggest problem in my opinion are voting rings getting more sophisticated and getting undetected for longer and longer period of time, with users from the rings getting more and more rep before action is taken and basically filling the site with spammy questions/answers (and even probably links to malware). This has the potential to become really nasty soon: at one point you can imagine several users from a voting ring upvoting themselves to 10K rep and starting to slowly vandalize many questions while going undetected for long period of time.

Which means SO is polluted with fake questions / answers. Google results are polluted with fake questions / answers. And high-rep users (the one with enough point to directly edit questions / answers) are wasting time fixing what looks like poor questions or commenting on these, not realizing they're fake questions/answers made by people participating in a voting ring.

Here's a recent example:

http://stackoverflow.com/users/3143873/leonte-george

User has 364 rep as I write this and it's obviously a voting ring made of a few users. If you have a few minutes just open that account and all the questions he answered: they're all from the same two or three same users, sometimes answering twice the same question and obviously getting upvotes and accepted answers from people in his voting ring.

But that's not the issue... The issue is that this is not stopped fast enough: because the mods are too busy wasting time on less important issues concerning users who are perfectly legit.

Despite my 3.8K rep and flagging to moderator attention, nothing is done to stop these fastly.

So on one end you have creeping authoritarianism focusing on not so important issues (like say, the "closing question" police which is super-fast to act when it comes to closing or mark as duplicate legit questions), while on the other end there are real abusers, totally gaming the system, reaching enough rep to create havoc and basically doing vandalism by filling the site with fake questions (and fake answers).

The "proof" that there's a real issues is that several high-rep users spent time fixing (intentional?) typos and grammar errors in these questions, thinking they were real but, mostly, that several people are going to open the profile I just mentioned and not realize it is part of a voting ring.

Now that I post this on HN maybe that HN mods are going to act... Sadly while at the same time explaining that HN is not the place to point out SO issues, that this should be taken to meta (where I'd be downvoted or closed as duplicate etc.).

As a side note I don't understand how a new user can ask six questions, have five of them answered by a single user and all upvoted and accepted without that kind of behavior directly triggering an alarm requiring moderator attention.

So: add the ability to directly flag a user (or a question if it's simpler) as part of a voting ring, add an algo that finds probable voting ring behavior and call immediate moderator attention when such rings are discovered. Also prevent questions which are made by user which have too low of a rep from appearing in Google immediately.

And, no, I'm not taking this to meta: I don't like the "tone" there ; )

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#98
post #69

DON'T TRUST ME BLINDLY: I work for Stack Exchange, so I'm totally biased. On the other hand, I left a lucrative career in finance for a lot less money here because I believe in what we're doing, so there's that. MOST IMPORTANTLY: I appreciate Michael's feedback, and he worries about a lot of the same things I do. Moreover, we are incredibly grateful for all he's done over the years - my honest belief is that his cont…

Thank you for all of your hard work, and the work of the SO team. Helping us share all these fishes around.

Re: Why I no longer contribute to Stack Overflow

#100
post #9

In four years you should have learnt that it's "Stack Overflow" with a space and that you can only get moderator status when you have a diamond next to your name. Then again, there are plenty of 3-year+ users with 100k+ who still think moderators are any other users who disagree with them and/or can only vote to close a question. When you don't want to see the effects of leaving joke questions around as more and more…

There are a set of tools that you gain access to when you hit 10k reputation, which are often referred to as the "10k moderator tools." I think this is what the author is talking about when he says he was close to moderator status.

Reading the other comments here, a lot of people think mods are those with 2k. Or at least those with edit privileges.
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