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Rapgenius.com Traffic and Demographic Statistics

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Re: Rapgenius.com Traffic and Demographic Statistics

#91

Post by GuiA »

ruswick wrote: post #82
ecaron wrote: post #7

Can someone explain why this is a topic worthy of discussion? I get that they had a SEO tactic, Google penalized them, they offered an empty apology for it, and now we're up to the present. Stating the obvious of "traffic drops when Google penalizes you" seems like a "sun rose again today"-type story.

Why? Because the sheer magnitude is crazy. Rap Genius's traffic fell by nearly two thirds ! This is a very prominent, YC-affiliated startup that is being nuked by Google. It should come as no surprise that the news is seen as significant by the HN crowd. Moreover, I think many people are upset with the scope of Google's punishment. De-weighting RG is one thing, nuking it into the ground is entirely different, and is…

>De-weighting RG is one thing, nuking it into the ground is entirely different, and is in my opinion unwarranted. If I type "Rap Genius" into Google, I am justified in expecting Rap Genius to be the first result. Period. When Google goes out of its way to effectively expunge a site from existence (to the extent that Google can expunge a site), they are doing a massive disservice to their users and are degrading the quality of their search results.

Necessary reminder that Google does whatever the fuck they want with their service, and that no one is in a position to expect anything. Does it suck? Yes. Is it a predictable outcome of the free market on which Silicon Valley and the tech industry in General is built? You bet.

Re: Rapgenius.com Traffic and Demographic Statistics

#92

Post by gojomo »

angryasian wrote: post #85
gojomo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't matter how you achieve a monopoly: it's defined by dominance, not bad-behavior. And once you have monopoly power, things that used to be legal for you to do – for example certain pricing or bundling strategies – can become illegal.

the entire argument is questionable as to what Google's strategy is but they are only in that position because of a superior product in a market with a relatively low barrier.

Low barrier?! Giant companies like Yahoo, staffed with large teams of search technology pioneers, have been scared out of search competition. Google touts its massive custom infrastructure. The arms race between Google and SEO creates a massive pollution backwash of false quality signals on the web, that make things way harder for any upstart which lacks Google's decade-plus of proprietary know-how and billions in hardware.

And that's before considering the contractual defaults across software (Firefox/toolbars/bundleware) and subsidized hardware (Android), that few people change. (Many don't even know it can be changed, or don't even know the difference between "Google" and "the Internet"!)

Those are all big barriers to entry, even if they've been earned by excellent technology and business strategy.

Re: Rapgenius.com Traffic and Demographic Statistics

#95

Post by skizm »

jhonovich wrote: post #72
skizm wrote: post #26

As a total aside, how do sites like Quantcast and Alexa get traffic information from other websites that they don't have code on? (or do they?) I feel like getting accurate traffic statistics on one's own website is tough enough.

This is 'directedly measured data' from RapGenius (notice the icon / message in the upper right hand corner). RapGenius voluntarily added tracking code to their website to enable Quantcast to do this. In this case, then, the numbers are likely to be quite accurate.

Ah, cool. I did not see that. That makes much more sense.

Re: Rapgenius.com Traffic and Demographic Statistics

#96

Post by dragonwriter »

ruswick wrote: post #82
ecaron wrote: post #7

Can someone explain why this is a topic worthy of discussion? I get that they had a SEO tactic, Google penalized them, they offered an empty apology for it, and now we're up to the present. Stating the obvious of "traffic drops when Google penalizes you" seems like a "sun rose again today"-type story.

Why? Because the sheer magnitude is crazy. Rap Genius's traffic fell by nearly two thirds ! This is a very prominent, YC-affiliated startup that is being nuked by Google. It should come as no surprise that the news is seen as significant by the HN crowd. Moreover, I think many people are upset with the scope of Google's punishment. De-weighting RG is one thing, nuking it into the ground is entirely different, and is…

> Moreover, I think many people are upset with the scope of Google's punishment. De-weighting RG is one thing, nuking it into the ground is entirely different, and is in my opinion unwarranted.

If the impact wasn't significant, it wouldn't be a disincentive to engage in black hat SEO.

> There is no reason that a response of this magnitude by Google is justified

Yes, there are reasons. The reasons are "specific deterrence" and "general deterrence".

Re: Rapgenius.com Traffic and Demographic Statistics

#97

Post by dragonwriter »

belorn wrote: post #43
ecaron wrote: post #7

Can someone explain why this is a topic worthy of discussion? I get that they had a SEO tactic, Google penalized them, they offered an empty apology for it, and now we're up to the present. Stating the obvious of "traffic drops when Google penalizes you" seems like a "sun rose again today"-type story.

In one of the other threads, some stated that Google do not have monopoly status. The claim they used was that google only has 25% of the search market. This topic is interesting because it shows how much in a monopoly status google really is in in controlling where traffic goes on the net.

> This topic is interesting because it shows how much in a monopoly status google really is in in controlling where traffic goes on the net.

Does it? I mean, is there any reason to believe that Rap Genius is typical in their degree of dependence on Google here?

Re: Rapgenius.com Traffic and Demographic Statistics

#98

Post by dragonwriter »

philangist wrote: post #53
greghinch wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#3 definitely is why there is so much enthusiasm running around regarding their punishment

It's actually kind of bullshit too. It's in a similar vein to the joy people have in many of the 'Facebook is no longer popular among 14-16 year old' posts. These sites provide a valuable service, just because you don't like them doesn't justify being (in the parlance of the youth) a hater.

> These sites provide a valuable service, just because you don't like them doesn't justify being (in the parlance of the youth) a hater.

The founders put on a public face to create reactions in audience members. Some of those positive, and that's no doubt what they are seeking. Some of those are negative, and while that may not be what they are seeking (although I suspect that, given their actual target market, the negative reactions of those outside of the targeted culture are just as intended as the positive reactions), those are no less legitimate than the positive ones.

Re: Rapgenius.com Traffic and Demographic Statistics

#99

Post by raldi »

jonknee wrote: post #90
raldi wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of them just make it up: http://blog.reddit.com/2010/07/experts-misunderestimate-our-...

Actually no, in this case it's directly measured. Quantcast only shows exact stats for sites that include their JS tracker. Sites normally do this for advertising purposes (advertisers don't have to wonder about your traffic).

When I worked at reddit, the shakedown worked something like this:

1. ComScore (or one of their competitors) makes up a small number and tells advertisers that's your traffic

2. Advertisers believe them

3. You call up ComScore and say, "WTF?"

4. ComScore says, "Well, if you don't like the numbers we're reporting, you can just add our tracking bug to your site"

And then you're in a position where you either have to betray your users' privacy by putting a third-party tracker on every page you serve, or have your traffic stats dramatically underrepresented to the advertisers you rely on.

Re: Rapgenius.com Traffic and Demographic Statistics

#100

Post by belorn »

res0nat0r wrote: post #75
belorn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In one of the other threads, some stated that Google do not have monopoly status. The claim they used was that google only has 25% of the search market. This topic is interesting because it shows how much in a monopoly status google really is in in controlling where traffic goes on the net.

I'd replace the word monopoly with popular.

"A monopoly (from Greek monos μόνος (alone or single) + polein πωλεῖν (to sell)) exists when a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular commodity. Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition to produce the good or service and a lack of viable substitute goods. The verb "monopolize" refers to the process by which a company gains the ability to raise prices or exclude competitors." - Wikipedia

You can monopolize an market by popularity, and thus create a monopoly. However, monopoly and popularity is not the same word.

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