Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Bitcoin is a significant breakthrough, but perhaps not as a currency

dpk.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 105 posts

Re: Why Bitcoin is a significant breakthrough, but perhaps not as a currency

#91

Post by rthomas6 »

jokoon wrote: post #70
rthomas6 wrote: post #19

I am convinced that many problems with Bitcoin would be solved if we could come up with a way to tie mining difficulty to the currency's demand instead of only to the mining computing power. Instead of ensuring a predictable generation rate, this could ensure a predictable value . When demand wanes, the currency is harder to mine and becomes more scarce, and when demand surges, the currency becomes easier to mine and…

> You could plan the rough change in value over time, and build it into the algorithm Are you sure of what you're saying ? Because bitcoin doesn't seem to work in a very simple fashion already, it's decentralized and it's already a miracle if it's working as the programmer intended.

Of course I'm not sure. I do not know if my idea is possible, but if it is and it works, I think it would be more stable than Bitcoin.

Re: Why Bitcoin is a significant breakthrough, but perhaps not as a currency

#92

Post by dllthomas »

XorNot wrote: post #58
rthomas6 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did toss out a less thought-out version of the idea on bitcointalk and /r/bitcoin a while back, and you're right, they were not interested. Those communities seemed to think that a non-predetermined amount of coins meant the same thing as a fiat currency. But maybe if something like this is actually built, people that believe in more mainstream economic ideas would get attracted to it and start to use it?

Once you acknowledge mainstream economic thought (or at least mainstream academic economic thought) might actually be a useful field of study, you've pretty much defeated the point of running Bitcoin with a non-central bank model. Bitcoin appeals to people who have decided it's outrageous they have to invest their money in productive enterprise to get more of it, and it specifically appeals to greed which says "get i…

A protocol that automatically grows the monetary base in response to demand and shrinks it when demand declines kinda is a central bank.

Re: Why Bitcoin is a significant breakthrough, but perhaps not as a currency

#93

Post by johndevor »

maratd wrote: post #81
johndevor wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most jobs do not experience constant annual productivity gains, but everyone wants a raise at the end of the year and feels like shit when they don't get it. End-of-the-year raises can happen in a deflationary economy too, that's not really associated with the inflation / deflation debate. The amount of the raise can be less in nominal dollars but the employee gets the same real purchasing power. > Most merchants w…

> The amount of the raise can be less in nominal dollars but the employee gets the same real purchasing power. 1. 99% of people out there have no idea what purchasing power is. 2. The 1% that do either lack the ability or the will to calculate it. 3. It's entirely irrelevant, because in a deflationary environment you will be receiving a pay cut . Remember, most people do not experience productivity gains which necess…

> No normal human being makes the connection between prices and their paycheck. Not even economists. Yes, that's the rational conclusion. The world doesn't work that way.

That's not true. The world is entirely aware of prices and how their paycheck relates to it. It's called a Cost of Living Adjustment:

http://www.ssa.gov/cola/

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cola.asp

Re: Why Bitcoin is a significant breakthrough, but perhaps not as a currency

#94

Post by coderzach »

Joona wrote: post #65
coderzach wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably on chrome for windows, which does a really poor job of rendering webfonts. https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=137692

Do people not test their sites on the most popular browsers? (I have the same problem with Opera 12.16.)

I think the issue is that most front-end developers test on chrome for Mac first, and then assume that it works the same on windows.

Re: Why Bitcoin is a significant breakthrough, but perhaps not as a currency

#95

Post by wcoenen »

rthomas6 wrote: post #19

I am convinced that many problems with Bitcoin would be solved if we could come up with a way to tie mining difficulty to the currency's demand instead of only to the mining computing power. Instead of ensuring a predictable generation rate, this could ensure a predictable value . When demand wanes, the currency is harder to mine and becomes more scarce, and when demand surges, the currency becomes easier to mine and…

Instead of trying to come up with a way to measure demand, you could just have each block contain a vote for what the mining reward should be. When the difficulty is adjusted, the block reward could be updated to the median of the votes.

The same could be done for other parameters (like the targeted time between blocks) or maybe even for more complicated things, like what kind of digital signature algorithms are acceptable.

I'd call it "votecoin".

Re: Why Bitcoin is a significant breakthrough, but perhaps not as a currency

#96

Post by andrewla »

bachback wrote: post #25
andrewla wrote: post #15

I don't think the author realizes how uninteresting a decentralized transaction store is without the currency element. The trick was to line up economic incentives so that securing the network and accepting transaction fees are the same thing. The fact that bitcoin serves as a centralized document store is one of the biggest defects in bitcoin as it stands now, and when bitcoin does fall, it will fall to a system tha…

I strongly believe you vastly underestimate the power that lies in this system. Scripts are in fact one of the most exciting features, although some things have to be figured out yet. How are transactions not "first-class citizens"? That statement makes no sense. In fact the opposite is true. Currently everything is about 1:1 transactions, because higher order protocols have not been build out.

That the system has power is without doubt. The extent to which the power detracts from the currency aspect of the system is what I question.

When I say that a transaction is not a first-class citizen, I mean things like the fact that the question "I have this address, how many bitcoins do I have" is not really answerable; redeeming existing incoming transactions may rely on information outside of your key pair.

You're correct that as it stands, 1:1 transactions are pretty much all we have to deal with, so long as IsStandard doesn't change. The fact that the script language exists is worrisome, as is the fact that IsStandard only applies to relying of transactions by clients, not transactions in blocks.

Re: Why Bitcoin is a significant breakthrough, but perhaps not as a currency

#97

Post by maratd »

tlrobinson wrote: post #82
maratd wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The amount of the raise can be less in nominal dollars but the employee gets the same real purchasing power. 1. 99% of people out there have no idea what purchasing power is. 2. The 1% that do either lack the ability or the will to calculate it. 3. It's entirely irrelevant, because in a deflationary environment you will be receiving a pay cut . Remember, most people do not experience productivity gains which necess…

So in a deflationary currency you'll have: "More people are buying my shit. I'm running out of stock. Maybe I won't decrease my prices this year. My prices didn't decrease, now people are buying the same amount of shit they did before. I am making more money. I feel good. Oh crap, my supplier didn't decrease his prices this year. My supplier is an asshole. But people are buying my stuff, I didn't have to lower prices…

Right. Your example illustrates the stupidity of deflation. You got so tripped up in the terms and concepts, you didn't even get it right.

In a deflationary economy, people always buy LESS of your stuff and you have no idea if that's happening because your goods are less popular or because the currency is deflating or possibly both. In an inflationary system, if less people are buying my stuff, I know there's a problem with my goods.

Re: Why Bitcoin is a significant breakthrough, but perhaps not as a currency

#98

Post by tlrobinson »

maratd wrote: post #97
tlrobinson wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in a deflationary currency you'll have: "More people are buying my shit. I'm running out of stock. Maybe I won't decrease my prices this year. My prices didn't decrease, now people are buying the same amount of shit they did before. I am making more money. I feel good. Oh crap, my supplier didn't decrease his prices this year. My supplier is an asshole. But people are buying my stuff, I didn't have to lower prices…

Right. Your example illustrates the stupidity of deflation. You got so tripped up in the terms and concepts, you didn't even get it right. In a deflationary economy, people always buy LESS of your stuff and you have no idea if that's happening because your goods are less popular or because the currency is deflating or possibly both. In an inflationary system, if less people are buying my stuff, I know there's a probl…

"You got so tripped up in the terms and concepts, you didn't even get it right."

Where did I trip up?

Sure, people will need to adjust their thinking, but I think you overestimate the obsession with rising salaries/costs.

"In a deflationary economy, people always buy LESS of your stuff and you have no idea if that's happening"

[citation needed]

Re: Why Bitcoin is a significant breakthrough, but perhaps not as a currency

#100

Post by maratd »

tlrobinson wrote: post #98
maratd wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Your example illustrates the stupidity of deflation. You got so tripped up in the terms and concepts, you didn't even get it right. In a deflationary economy, people always buy LESS of your stuff and you have no idea if that's happening because your goods are less popular or because the currency is deflating or possibly both. In an inflationary system, if less people are buying my stuff, I know there's a probl…

"You got so tripped up in the terms and concepts, you didn't even get it right." Where did I trip up? Sure, people will need to adjust their thinking, but I think you overestimate the obsession with rising salaries/costs. "In a deflationary economy, people always buy LESS of your stuff and you have no idea if that's happening" [citation needed]

> "In a deflationary economy, people always buy LESS of your stuff and you have no idea if that's happening"

> [citation needed]

> Where did I trip up?

The fact that you need a citation to realize that in a deflationary system if prices stay stagnant people will consume less by definition. You don't seem to realize that. Deflation means prices are falling. If prices don't fall and the dollar is worth more, people buy less of your stuff. This isn't rocket science. Please stop advocating things you don't even understand.

Post reply on HN