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Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

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Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether a person wants a completely Windows experience or not has no bearing on unification being beneficial overall. I personally don't believe that they are worse experiences. The Windows Phone UI is loved by pretty much everyone who uses it. It's a similar story with Windows 8. Read reviews from people who are actually using the operating system and not just reacting out of fear of change. One of Microsoft's stren…

You are free to believe what you want. However, Windows 8 is an unmitigated disaster. Surface is an unmitigated disaster. Windows Phone is absolutely ignored. Bing is largely ignored. Internet Explorer has lost large swaths of marketshare. Microsoft is trying to unify an experience that no one cares about. They're building products that no one wants to use. And the reason no one wants to use them is because they are…

Windows 8 has more users than all versions of OS X combined. If that's an "unmitigated disaster", what does that make OS X?

Windows Phone has overtaken iOS in Latin America and holds the number two spot for mobile devices. Windows Phone has also overtaken iOS in Italy, and is less than a percentage point away from taking over in Germany as well. Across Europe Windows Phone market share has doubled from this time last year, while iOS continues to decline. Windows Phone is the fastest growing mobile OS worldwide. Nokia's customer satisfaction has surpassed all Android manufacturers and is right on the heels of Apple. None of this evidence supports your claim that Windows Phone is "absolutely ignored".

Bing handles roughly 30% (Bing + Yahoo) of internet search traffic in the US. A far cry from being "largely ignored".

None of this paints a picture of "an experience that no one cares about". Your statements show clear bias with no evidence to support it. You're certainly entitled to your opinions, but the sweeping statements you are making are simply wrong.

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#92
post #9

Microsoft isn't nuts, but black text on dark gray background is... yikes.

Readability to the rescue: http://www.readability.com

Shouldn't be necessary, but sadly far too often is.

I'm also known to tweak site CSS. Rather compulsively these days (Stylebot / Stylish browser plugins help for this).

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using a Windows Phone, Windows Tablet and Xbox all feel very similar. None of that happens with different companies. Why should a game machine, controlled by a gamepad, operate anything like a touchscreen smartphone, or a keyboard and mouse controlled desktop? There is absolutely no value to that , and it is exactly what is being pointed out as the problem with Microsoft: Everything hinges on trying to leverage and p…

A game machine controlled by a gamepad is almost identical to a touchscreen smartphone (Windows Phone 8) or a touchscreen tablet (Windows 8) with the exception of lack of gestures. You essentially move the pointing device (finger or selection box) over the tile you want to activate and press it. They aren't as radically different as you imply. The Windows Phone, Windows 8 Metro (on touch screens and tablets) and Xbox…

You essentially move the pointing device (finger or selection box) over the tile you want to activate

So a game controller is a (rather terrible) mouse? Do you understand that Metro was made for touch because such a move the cursor interface is entirely unlike a touch interface? There is a discord here that I don't think you are understanding.

The Windows Phone, Windows 8 Metro (on touch screens and tablets) and Xbox One UI are all great and very information dense compared to what you see on competing devices.

This information density thing comes up a lot, with absolutely nothing to demonstrate or prove it. Personally I find the Metro interface to be very information poor, and I cannot comprehend how such a claim could even be considered. That dearth of information (form far before function) has been one of the primary complaints about Metro.

only DNA from your list

Are you talking from a marketing perspective or something? Because no, my list is precise for its intended purpose: Those are cases where Microsoft thought that "unifying" was going to save the day, and the end result was anything but. Where divisions were essentially forced into a vision that didn't match the actual needs of their products because synergy or something.

As to .NET, it was the primary reason SQL Server went five years between versions of 2000 and 2005, coming out with little changed but for added .NET integration, to find that close to no one actually uses, and a "built in .NET" management studio that had far less features than the version before it, while using dramatically more resources. All so they could talk about unifying.

XNA Studio is yet another example of unifying technologies in poorly considered ways, and that alone close to killed independent game creation on the Xbox.

Are you going to argue that being able to reuse all of the code behind an app's user interface across all of Microsoft's products isn't a good direction to move?

If it's for dogma, or if it's trying to mash together highly dissimilar products, yes, it's a demonstrably terrible direction to move. The single and only group that cares at all about this overlap are lazy amateur Microsoft-world developers, and the result of their ill considered efforts does absolutely nothing to advance Windows Mobile, Windows Desktop, or the Xbox. I mean seriously, Windows Phone remains a death pile of largely terrible apps, and the few decent apps Microsoft had to essentially pay the developers to make. Where is this great advantage yielded? As for the Xbox, 0% of professional game developers care one iota that there is anything in common between platforms. They really don't. Hell, they care more about abstractions that make it easier to port between the Xbox One and PS4, and eventually to iOS and Android.

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are free to believe what you want. However, Windows 8 is an unmitigated disaster. Surface is an unmitigated disaster. Windows Phone is absolutely ignored. Bing is largely ignored. Internet Explorer has lost large swaths of marketshare. Microsoft is trying to unify an experience that no one cares about. They're building products that no one wants to use. And the reason no one wants to use them is because they are…

Windows 8 has more users than all versions of OS X combined. If that's an "unmitigated disaster", what does that make OS X? Windows Phone has overtaken iOS in Latin America and holds the number two spot for mobile devices. Windows Phone has also overtaken iOS in Italy, and is less than a percentage point away from taking over in Germany as well. Across Europe Windows Phone market share has doubled from this time last…

If OSX were coasting on a worldwide monopoly, where simply executing competently yielded hundreds of millions of automatic sales, you would actually have a point.

Microsoft is not a startup. They were on top of the world, and they've only been going down.

As to "fasted growing mobile OS", it's easy to achieve that when you have low single digit marketshare. For anyone else who read that and were surprised, note that Microsoft went from 2 to 4% marketshare. Android went from 75 to 81 (3x more absolute market growth, but from a relative perspective, no Android couldn't grow from 75% to 150%). It is the sort of skewed and misrepresented statistics that make the whole debate so odd.

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are free to believe what you want. However, Windows 8 is an unmitigated disaster. Surface is an unmitigated disaster. Windows Phone is absolutely ignored. Bing is largely ignored. Internet Explorer has lost large swaths of marketshare. Microsoft is trying to unify an experience that no one cares about. They're building products that no one wants to use. And the reason no one wants to use them is because they are…

Windows 8 has more users than all versions of OS X combined. If that's an "unmitigated disaster", what does that make OS X? Windows Phone has overtaken iOS in Latin America and holds the number two spot for mobile devices. Windows Phone has also overtaken iOS in Italy, and is less than a percentage point away from taking over in Germany as well. Across Europe Windows Phone market share has doubled from this time last…

First off, you are getting the wrong impression about me. I'm a Windows user. I have some Apple products, like an iPhone, but I tried using Mac OSX for a year and hated it. I have a MacBook Pro at work, but I bootcamped it and run Windows 7 solely. I've been a Microsoft user since MS-DOS 3.3, so I don't care what OSX's install numbers are. I started my career programming for Windows 3.1 SDK, using MFC, etc, so I've been with Microsoft every step of the way.

Windows 7 was a great OS after a disastrous Windows Vista. Windows 8 is again an unmitigated disaster. 88M users out of 1 billion install base?

http://www.neowin.net/news/there-could-be-885-million-window...

Even Steve Ballmer himself said that Windows 8 was not selling enough.

http://www.neowin.net/news/ballmer-states-that-windows-is-no...

No one wants to upgrade to Windows 8. That's why they are backing away from their Metro strategy. Yet another integration attempt that has completely blown up in their face.

You are also wrong about Bing's search traffic. It's 18%. As I said, largely ignored. 4 out of 5 people ignore Bing. Bundling Yahoo as disingenuous since most people don't know it's Bing. I worked at Yahoo. I know how inertia works, and given that their search share hasn't changed much since they had their own search engine, it's being used by people that just don't care. You could switch Yahoo's backend to Google and no one would know the difference, because they don't care.

Sure, Windows Phone may be a small success in Latin America, if you consider selling dirt cheap phones with no margin a success. It's still the #2 phone to Android and Windows Phone is still 3-6% marketshare worldwide. 94 people in the world out of 100 ignore Windows Phone. It's absolutely ignored. That may change in the future, if Microsoft gives away their phones for free. But as of right now, they are absolutely ignored.

Microsoft is unable to create a single experience on any of their platforms that bring happiness to their users, except for X-box. I don't have an X-box one, but many of my coworkers are complaining like hell about Microsoft's need to change the X-box one's experience to more like Metro's. I can't speak to how accurate this statement is. If they were smart, they would be battling PS4 and trying to make the best gaming console they can, instead of having another agenda of some failed integration that is unnecessary.

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 8 has more users than all versions of OS X combined. If that's an "unmitigated disaster", what does that make OS X? Windows Phone has overtaken iOS in Latin America and holds the number two spot for mobile devices. Windows Phone has also overtaken iOS in Italy, and is less than a percentage point away from taking over in Germany as well. Across Europe Windows Phone market share has doubled from this time last…

First off, you are getting the wrong impression about me. I'm a Windows user. I have some Apple products, like an iPhone, but I tried using Mac OSX for a year and hated it. I have a MacBook Pro at work, but I bootcamped it and run Windows 7 solely. I've been a Microsoft user since MS-DOS 3.3, so I don't care what OSX's install numbers are. I started my career programming for Windows 3.1 SDK, using MFC, etc, so I've b…

And I'm an avid Mac user. My primary machine is a Retina Macbook Pro. I just converted my wife from yet another Thinkpad, which fell apart after two years, to a Macbook Air. I've got my whole house connected via an Airport Extreme and a couple Airports used as access points. I have my Apple TV as the HDMI IN source on my Xbox One. The only time I open Parallels is for Visual Studio or the occasional PC only game.

I was an early adopter of Android tablets. I bought the Xoom when it first came out, and then the Asus Transformer as soon as it was available. I have bought and returned three iPads (iPad 2, 4 and mini retina) because of just how limited the OS actually is. The hardware was beautiful, but I still can't do simple things like create a separate account for my kids to use? Now I own two Surface tablets (Pro and RT) because I find the experience to be simply better than iOS and Android. The other platforms have a lot more apps available, but the Windows store has what I want.

I now also own Windows Phones across the family because I was tired of the fragmentation issues on Android. I was also tired of having to flash the ROM every few months because performance and battery life got worse and worse over time.

You will probably find similar stories if you just look at the people using Windows Phones and Windows 8 (on touch devices). Pretty much all user reviews I have read on the systems are incredibly positive and it is only getting better.

Edit: Yes, there are hundreds of millions of Windows 7 users not upgrading to Windows 8. I think that's to be expected as Windows 8 is best experienced on a touch device, not with a keyboard and mouse. If you look at all of the new devices running Windows 8, they pretty much all have a touchscreen (tablet, laptop or convertible). I have used a laptop exclusively for the last five years now. The only time I ever touch a mouse is to play first person shooters. I believe Microsoft sees that there are fewer and fewer new dedicated desktop setups, and it makes more sense to build your operating system towards where the market is going than to where it was. For once they are trying to be ahead of the curve, and we will have to see if it pays off in the long run.

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A game machine controlled by a gamepad is almost identical to a touchscreen smartphone (Windows Phone 8) or a touchscreen tablet (Windows 8) with the exception of lack of gestures. You essentially move the pointing device (finger or selection box) over the tile you want to activate and press it. They aren't as radically different as you imply. The Windows Phone, Windows 8 Metro (on touch screens and tablets) and Xbox…

You essentially move the pointing device (finger or selection box) over the tile you want to activate So a game controller is a (rather terrible) mouse? Do you understand that Metro was made for touch because such a move the cursor interface is entirely unlike a touch interface? There is a discord here that I don't think you are understanding. The Windows Phone, Windows 8 Metro (on touch screens and tablets) and Xbox…

So a game controller is a (rather terrible) mouse?

Who said anything about a mouse? I haven't use a mouse to interact with my computer (out side of games) in years. Windows 8 "modern" apps are designed to work well in touch environments, and they succeed at that. And yes, there is a lot of overlap between how you use a touchscreen device and how you use a controller. Many UX concepts are the same when using either input method.

This information density thing comes up a lot, with absolutely nothing to demonstrate or prove it.

Perhaps we have a different definition of information density. The Windows Phone home screens can provide you with a lot of information without launching a single app. iOS provides a wall of icons to launch apps. Android has widgets, and some of them are beautiful and work well. Live tiles are much more consistent though and trivial to add to your application which means they are included more often.

XNA Studio is yet another example of unifying technologies in poorly considered ways, and that alone close to killed independent game creation on the Xbox.

No, Microsoft policies and practices are what almost killed independent game creation on the Xbox. XNA was a great engine for building games and that should be evident by the interest and support around MonoGame. MonoGame is probably the best engine to build a cross platform game at this point. Using MonoGame you can support iOS, Android, Windows, OS X, Linux, Windows 8 Store, Windows Phone 8, PlayStation Mobile, and OUYA. I wouldn't be surprised if Xbox One and Playstation 4 were added to that list soon.

Hell, they care more about abstractions that make it easier to port between the Xbox One and PS4, and eventually to iOS and Android.

The abstractions already exist for iOS and Android. Using Xamarin you can use C# to build apps for iOS, Android, Windows (desktop and mobile) and OS X. As I said above, MonoGame will likely fill a gap enabling you to write a game that targets both PS4 and Xbox One. Granted, AAA titles aren't going to be interested in MonoGame because they are trying to squeeze every last drop of performance out of the system, but it's a fantastic option for more causal or indie games.

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#98
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The killer feature of iPhone was everything about it. The killer feature of Blackberry was keyboard and excellent corporate user support. The killer feature of Android was openness and much lower prices. What makes WM stand out? They need it.

>>>> What makes WM stand out? They need it. Are you serious? 1) Let's start with the interface which didn't completely copy iOS like Android and BB did. 2) Live Tiles - which neither Android or iOS have 3) Nevermind Android or iOS don't have live tiles, you can also make the tiles small, med, or lg depending on the app. Again, something neither platform has. 4) Built in feature Data Sense which conserves your data us…

This all are nice-to-haves, except for the impressive camera.

See.

iPhone: a sleek, compact, highly integrated, fashionable-statement smartphone vs large clumsy geeky devices.

BB: corporate-controlled employee smartphone vs employee-controlled smarthpone.

Android: $300 smartphone vs $700 smartphone (and if you fancy to produce your own, you can join for free).

Each is a solid, obvious deal for some large market segment. For efficient adoption, WM needs a deal like these, large and unique. Yes, good MSO integration, and other types of (MS-centric) corporate integration, security features, etc might be it. The niche of corporate-friendly smartphone is a bit vacant with BB's demise.

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, you are getting the wrong impression about me. I'm a Windows user. I have some Apple products, like an iPhone, but I tried using Mac OSX for a year and hated it. I have a MacBook Pro at work, but I bootcamped it and run Windows 7 solely. I've been a Microsoft user since MS-DOS 3.3, so I don't care what OSX's install numbers are. I started my career programming for Windows 3.1 SDK, using MFC, etc, so I've b…

And I'm an avid Mac user. My primary machine is a Retina Macbook Pro. I just converted my wife from yet another Thinkpad, which fell apart after two years, to a Macbook Air. I've got my whole house connected via an Airport Extreme and a couple Airports used as access points. I have my Apple TV as the HDMI IN source on my Xbox One. The only time I open Parallels is for Visual Studio or the occasional PC only game. I w…

she will be lucky if Air lasts two years.
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