91–100 of 102 posts
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Millions of users will have "Logs", an UI for the journal. Because journal logs more and allows more things, the UI will be more useful. Easy to do with journal (log attributes with each message), impossible with "/var/log/messages".
You mean a CLI-UI?
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What else would you wish for? A registry that can get randomly corrupted, complete with nonsensical keys? That makes no sense. We had a perfectly working init called System V init. That's an alternative here, you may be looking at the wrong operating system. A lot of the complexity comes from how flexible it is. I think the complexity comes from trying to do too much at once. It's an init, but also cron. It's still a…
System V init was decent enough for the time, but today it's relatively garbage compared to the alternatives. Services die? Oh well, I guess they'll just stay dead. At least systemd has a wrapper that restarts them. Also the "write a shell script with magical comments in it and lots of low-level bash" is not an elegant solution to any problem. Fedora's been pretty good about supporting legacy sysvinit style scripts a…
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Not really, I just prefer the Unix philosophy of doing one thing and doing it well. I hated upstart when it was introduced too, it broke stuff so I had to replace it with the unsupported (but fully functional) sysvinit every time. I still don't like the fact that it obsoleted /etc/inittab and that it has both old fashioned /etc/init.d and a /etc/init, because I have to look in 2 places to find a config or script. But…
Right, so Bash is Unix right? Bash does tcp connections. Oops! Anyway, blindly following some theory is a bit strange. Systemd is several different components. Maybe you're heard of coreutils, kind of important on any Linux system. It doesn't do just one thing. I guess you think coreutils should be removed as well? Anyway, no clue what GNOME has to do with systemd. As said: seems you're grasping at straws. Haters gon…
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> RedHat Fedora makes no apologies for dropping legacy support. Heck, they threw out ifconfig in Fedora 19. WTF? Is that because Linux was becoming too easy to use? They have to keep changing it up, so the certification classes have new material to teach. Why wouldn't they keep the command around and wrap whatever re-invented mousetrap replaces it so millions of people can keep typing ifconfig?
ifconfig was deprecated on linux long ago. While it is compatible with other unixes, it doesn't really map onto the capabilities of the modern linux stack well. `ip` really is a better tool, and you're doing yourself a disservice if you're not using it, especially if you have anything more than the basic single IP/default gateway network.
Long ago? Centos 6.4 still has it. My Mac (BSD) has it. I never suggested that it is stupid to add software (ip) that is better, but why would they deliberately remove it when it is such an expected command and works across other unixes? I have trouble believing that it consumes much disk space.
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You mean a CLI-UI?
The original person (maybe you, too lazy to check) was worried about millions of users. So I talked about a GUI, not a CLI. The CLI has existed for a long time as mentioned by someone else.
> As if millions of users are suddenly going to forget about cat, head, tail, more, less, grep, awk, sed, fmt, etc. etc. that are only still useful if you learn how to journalctl and convert those binary logs back into plain text.
How does one use a GUI with cat, head, tail, more, less, grep, awk, etc? If they are needing to use normal unix commands, why could you think they have access to a UI?
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What else would you wish for? A registry that can get randomly corrupted, complete with nonsensical keys? That makes no sense. We had a perfectly working init called System V init. That's an alternative here, you may be looking at the wrong operating system. A lot of the complexity comes from how flexible it is. I think the complexity comes from trying to do too much at once. It's an init, but also cron. It's still a…
System V init was decent enough for the time, but today it's relatively garbage compared to the alternatives. Services die? Oh well, I guess they'll just stay dead. At least systemd has a wrapper that restarts them. Also the "write a shell script with magical comments in it and lots of low-level bash" is not an elegant solution to any problem. Fedora's been pretty good about supporting legacy sysvinit style scripts a…
If services dies, there is a problem that is still going to exist after restarting.
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System V init was decent enough for the time, but today it's relatively garbage compared to the alternatives. Services die? Oh well, I guess they'll just stay dead. At least systemd has a wrapper that restarts them. Also the "write a shell script with magical comments in it and lots of low-level bash" is not an elegant solution to any problem. Fedora's been pretty good about supporting legacy sysvinit style scripts a…
> Services die? Oh well, I guess they'll just stay dead. At least systemd has a wrapper that restarts them. If services dies, there is a problem that is still going to exist after restarting.
systemd will kick it back into gear if it drops.
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ifconfig was deprecated on linux long ago. While it is compatible with other unixes, it doesn't really map onto the capabilities of the modern linux stack well. `ip` really is a better tool, and you're doing yourself a disservice if you're not using it, especially if you have anything more than the basic single IP/default gateway network.
> ifconfig was deprecated on linux long ago. While it is compatible with other unixes, it doesn't really map onto the capabilities of the modern linux stack well. Long ago? Centos 6.4 still has it. My Mac (BSD) has it. I never suggested that it is stupid to add software (ip) that is better, but why would they deliberately remove it when it is such an expected command and works across other unixes? I have trouble beli…
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifconfig#Current_status
"Modern Linux distributions are in the process of deprecating ifconfig and route..."
Deliberately removing something means you don't have to maintain it any more and can spend your time improving the better tool rather than bug-fixing the legacy one.
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> Services die? Oh well, I guess they'll just stay dead. At least systemd has a wrapper that restarts them. If services dies, there is a problem that is still going to exist after restarting.
I've had named blow out and it doesn't get restarted, it just stays dead. Rebooting the server is a heavy handed fix. systemd will kick it back into gear if it drops.
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> ifconfig was deprecated on linux long ago. While it is compatible with other unixes, it doesn't really map onto the capabilities of the modern linux stack well. Long ago? Centos 6.4 still has it. My Mac (BSD) has it. I never suggested that it is stupid to add software (ip) that is better, but why would they deliberately remove it when it is such an expected command and works across other unixes? I have trouble beli…
CentOS is not removing deprecated things and Fedora is. This is the difference here. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifconfig#Current_status "Modern Linux distributions are in the process of deprecating ifconfig and route..." Deliberately removing something means you don't have to maintain it any more and can spend your time improving the better tool rather than bug-fixing the legacy one.
There are ways to handle it that make it backwards compatible and user friendly without only a little extra effort. It's not a sexy task, so who cares about usability.