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Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

theguardian.com

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Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#91

China exceeds the Unites states by more than 1 billion people in terms of population yet the US jail more people than China?! This seems shocking to say the least.(at least to me) Yet the US is supposed to be less of a 'policed state' than China.

Have you considered the possibility that higher per capita numbers of jailed people may reflect police officers doing a better job? In China, it may be easier for example to bribe the police or the judge and avoid jail.

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#92
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I must admit the op article seems to be pure political spin. You can read in the official statistics that number of crimes have absolutely exploded in Sweden since 1975: http://www.d-intl.com/2013/11/08/dramatisk-okning-av-valdsbr... It seems to me they should in fact rapidly increase the numbe of prisons, if they want to protect people.

d-intl.com is run by a bunch of paranoid and outright crazy neo-fascist. It's extremely racist and have close ties to the Norwegian terrorist Ander Bering Breivik as well as to the violent English Defence League(EDL). It's not by any means a decent source for anything.

I read one of the articles via Google Translate. I have no previous experience with the site, but when the article claimed that the Swedish authorities don't care about rape particularly if the victim is Swedish then it seemed to me to be rather cliche right-wing scaremongering.

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#93

China exceeds the Unites states by more than 1 billion people in terms of population yet the US jail more people than China?! This seems shocking to say the least.(at least to me) Yet the US is supposed to be less of a 'policed state' than China.

The US can account for every prisoner it has. China has a habit of just disappearing people and that isn't reported in their statistics.

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#94
post #65
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police are there to: - Do you for speeding. - Protect the establishment. - Threaten violence. - Prop up the prison-industrial complex for the benefit of private corporations. They are categorically not there to help you. They never have been. This is a misapprehension that has been around since the days of Peel. A police force is the state's visible threat of violence against its populace, in order to exact contr…

This is not how a democratic nation is supposed to work. So please don't hold up this characterization of the police as something which is inevitable. The democratic ideal is that the police have a national monopoly on the legal use of violence, and the use of this violence is dictated by the laws and the courts. This is how well-working democratic nations work, and it is indeed how the police force in my home countr…

It is inevitable. Every society has descended into this so far, until there is a revolution.

Us people in the UK realise what is happening. At some point, the moment will occur when the state oversteps the mark on something and the shit will get flipped country-wide.

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#95
post #51
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they're a bit different from Dansk Folkeparti (DF), mostly in having considerably more questionable roots, which I would guess doesn't help their acceptance in the party mainstream. They have made an effort to clean up their image in the past few years, expelling a number of the extreme-right elements, but the party's roots in the far-right scene makes them a bit anathema to respectable society. The origins o…

I think Sverigedemokraterna's support arise from the fact that the issue of immigration is generally seen as taboo in public Swedish debate, so the political parties at best avoid it. It also makes sense for this reason, that Sweden has a far more hardcore and aggressive extreme right scene than Denmark has (even if not more hardcore or aggressive, it is a lot larger). Because in Denmark, immigration can be part of p…

This is a typical talking-point of Sverigedemokraterna - the claiming that discussions around immigration are taboo in Swedish media. The major issue with this is that it's not actually the lack discussions about immigration (immigration-related actions and decisions by the government and the municipalities are frequently debated in "mainstream media" and commented on by editorials) - it's simply the fact that the majority of the Swedish people don't agree with the policies suggested by Sverigedemokraterna. If you listen to someones arguments and rejects them, are you then avoiding the debate just because you have rejected the arguments?

I will say that the Swedish population has become more polarised over this question - both the number of people who claim "immigration is good for Sweden" and "immigration is bad for Sweden" has risen over the past 10 years, shrinking the middle. There is also a strong correlation between education and attitude to immigration (in 2011, 56% of the people who had only 9 years of education agreed that reducing the number of asylum seekers to Sweden is good while only 22% of those with a university-degree agreed with the statement). This might explain some of the frustrations showcased by the people supporting Sverigedemokraterna and other anti-immigration parties - they might simply lack the ability to debate in the way public debates are typically held and coherently express their ideas in a convincing way.

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#96
post #63
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politicians have always run the police - a police force is the government's visible threat of violence and method of control over the population. They're not there to protect you. They're there to protect the establishment.

Next time you call the police. Please recite that little speech to the responding officer.

"Responding officer"?

You mean, the phone drone whose job it is to go "sir, burglary is a civil matter, you will need to pursue it yourself"? Already have.

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beware of the political spin! The article cited is from 2008 and so nearly five years outdated. The rise has stalled and the trend has been reversing with a slight decline of 1% in 2012 [1]. The biggest problem I see is that the the article glosses over the reasons for such a change. There are multiple reasons why crime statistics change, some merely methodological, but chief among them are two factors: * Changes in…

I love your source. >The rise has stalled and the trend has been reversing with a slight decline of 1% in 2012 [1]. From your source: "Since 2003, the number of reported offences has increased by approximately 147,000 (+12%). Since 1975, the trend in the total number of reported offences has been characterised by a continuous increase." That a 1% decrease in the statistics of a single year represent any significant c…

Between 2003 and 2013, the Swedish population grew by 7.8%, which should be taken into account when looking at absolute numbers of reported crimes.

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beware of the political spin! The article cited is from 2008 and so nearly five years outdated. The rise has stalled and the trend has been reversing with a slight decline of 1% in 2012 [1]. The biggest problem I see is that the the article glosses over the reasons for such a change. There are multiple reasons why crime statistics change, some merely methodological, but chief among them are two factors: * Changes in…

I love your source. >The rise has stalled and the trend has been reversing with a slight decline of 1% in 2012 [1]. From your source: "Since 2003, the number of reported offences has increased by approximately 147,000 (+12%). Since 1975, the trend in the total number of reported offences has been characterised by a continuous increase." That a 1% decrease in the statistics of a single year represent any significant c…

You're glossing over my main point: Picking a single number without context or interpretation from a statistic is devoid of any meaning.

The statistic measures "reported crimes" as a total value, not even per capita. That's a very long shot from "committed crimes". It's really just only what people report, if it's a crime or not. The number of reported crimes is most likely below the number of actual crimes for most crimes. It's a statistic which must be regarded with big caution. It's an indicator and as such has a value, but without context and analysis the number itself is basically meaningless. Take for example "fraud with help of internet" - that's a crime that basically didn't exist in 2003. It probably wasn't codified in law until much later and it's one of the fastest growing categories. Such changes skew the statistics, context is important. Even the reverse in trend may be due to external factors such as less people reporting drug abuse as a crime.

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#99
post #32
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That question mark is not needed. Sverigedemokraterna is very much in the same vein as the Danish People's Party and currently rates at about 10% in opinion surveys. They haven't changed the Overton Window very much since all other parties have a pretty solid front of not supporting Sverigedemokraterna but they most certainly have shifted the window a bit to the right.

I think they're a bit different from Dansk Folkeparti (DF), mostly in having considerably more questionable roots, which I would guess doesn't help their acceptance in the party mainstream. They have made an effort to clean up their image in the past few years, expelling a number of the extreme-right elements, but the party's roots in the far-right scene makes them a bit anathema to respectable society. The origins o…

Ok, I did not know this, thanks for a good explanation. But do you agree that they seem to point the blame stick in the same direction? That immigrants are the threat to the "true original culture"? Or are DF more truly critical towards subcultures that maybe are ethnically "right" but immoral on a traditional conservative value scale, eg. bikers/punks?

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#100

Beware of the political spin! Note that while the number of inmates plummets, the number of crimes committed is higher than ever. This is a failure of the police and the justice system and not a success story. Nearly 95 percent of violent crimes and robberies committed in Sweden go unsolved , and an individual police officer solves an average of three crimes per year. http://www.thelocal.se/20081103/15412

> Research carried out by TV4’s Kalla Fakta (‘Cold Facts’) investigative news programme also revealed that violent crimes and robberies make up about 75 percent of all crimes reported in Sweden.

Those numbers are bullshit. If we look at Brå's statistics (http://www.bra.se/download/18.22a7170813a0d141d21800063138/1...) we see that:

  Total crimes 2012: 1156390
  Other+petty theft:  317869 27.5%
  Vandalism:          152345 13.2%
  Fraud:              129063 11.2%
  --
  Robbery:              9213  0.8%
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