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America knows everything

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Re: America knows everything

#91

Post by nraynaud »

zobzu wrote: post #40

Ive been at the border several times, non us citizen, and i've always been treated with respect. In fact, the guys at the border were always nice to me, sometimes dared a joke or asked me for help to translate something to someone else. So yeah, i'm sure there's horrible ones and troubles happen, but i wouldn't make that a generality just like that.

Frankly, there is this nice guy in Toronto (a CBP agent at a pre-check thing), he scares me. He's always been nice (I mean chatting and stuff, recognizing me, trying to speak French, etc.), but I'm always afraid that I might give the wrong answer to a joke or something and hell would break lose. Maybe the probability is lower because he's also a foreigner there, but once is enough to change your life. I can't help but think about the Zone Libre checkpoints when I cross the US border.

Re: America knows everything

#92

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

allochthon wrote: post #42
nisa wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have knowledge about the US border and visa requirements and procedures. But even if he did made a mistake wouldn't it be easier to inform him before he enters the plane? And avoid interrogating him without letting him know what the problem was? The process he got ranks pretty high on the crazy paranoid side. I'm sure there are ways to solve the security and visa issues in a way that does not leave traumatic…

And such tacky behavior on the part of border security, if the description is accurate. It sounds like there had been a genuine misunderstanding.

No, that behavior is typical of US law enforcement.

Re: America knows everything

#93

Post by anonymousDan »

Amadou wrote: post #22
mherdeg wrote: post #13

This seems like a good place to leave a quick plug for the recent computer game "Papers, Please", which perfectly simulates the experience of being a clerk inspecting prospective entrants at the border of a dystopian republic and approving/denying visas. As the game progressed I found myself "just following orders", even as they got increasingly creepy, and now I think I have a much better understanding of what life…

You might find the essay, 'The Checkpoint' interesting (and thoroughly bleak). It is by an Israel Defense Force conscriptee who started working those internal checkpoints between israel proper and the occupied territories. It is an account of how an even more extreme situation is utterly soul-destroying for the people working those jobs, no matter how good their initial intentions are. http://www.bostonreview.net/BR3…

Wow, that was a powerful read.

Re: America knows everything

#94

Post by dude3 »

As a Chinese citizen you can come into the US ridiculously pregnant and have your kid in the US on a tourist visa via a flight and never get hassled. You can walk across the southern border and create a human fence around ICE vans and get a slap on the wrist.

The problem: This guy doesn't serve a political interest so he gets hassled. Face it, this country is backwards and caters only to the elite.

Re: America knows everything

#95

Post by andmarios »

MichaelGG wrote: post #58
jaeysin wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is true. He explained that we would write a travelogue (that would be published), explore the music scene, visit his aunt and play free shows (where he might receive tips). The article you linked says: "participation by amateurs in musical, sports, or similar events or contests, if not being paid for participating" It sounds like he would solidly qualify for that, considering it does not sound like…

Strictly speaking, isn't getting tips and food being paid? After all, don't food service workers get paid in tips?

You could always try paying your taxes in cannoli to see if food qualifies as payment.

Re: America knows everything

#96

Post by catilac »

gnoway wrote: post #63
catilac wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I think there is a need. If the definition of what it is to be American is warped, specifically, that it takes more than citizenship to be welcomed home, then that should come into the discussion of these cases of mistreated foreigners.

OK, but I read this as "oh that's nothing, we even mistreat our own." I think you're effectively minimizing this man's experience with an unfounded (?? maybe just my ignorance) comment about racial profiling.

Ah, that makes sense. You're right, I'm probably bringing in the wrong points relative to his experience.

However, I just feel that his experience opens up a higher level discussion of America's (poor?) implementation of border patrol.

Also, in terms of unfounded comments. There is a chance you haven't read this: http://varnull.adityamukerjee.net/post/59021412512/dont-fly-...

Race is always complex, especially because racism illegal. It becomes a subtle and hard to describe thing. Maybe "random search" is a good way to describe it. Ultimately, it makes me feel like I'm being delusional. I hope I am.

Re: America knows everything

#97

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

jaeysin wrote: post #32
pudquick wrote: post #24

While I agree that this person was probably treated very poorly, I also want to point out that they were traveling for work purposes. In the United States, non-US citizens entering the country for work purposes are generally required to get a visa. There are a few (and very few at that) business exceptions to this process, as listed here: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html He stated that he w…

I don't think this is true. He explained that we would write a travelogue (that would be published), explore the music scene, visit his aunt and play free shows (where he might receive tips). The article you linked says: "participation by amateurs in musical, sports, or similar events or contests, if not being paid for participating" It sounds like he would solidly qualify for that, considering it does not sound like…

He _obviously_ said that he was going to be paid, in tips and food.

No one here is justifying the draconian actions of the border guards. We're merely pointing out that, based upon what he said, any border guard in a bad mood would refuse him entry.

Re: America knows everything

#98

Post by RandallBrown »

pudquick wrote: post #24

While I agree that this person was probably treated very poorly, I also want to point out that they were traveling for work purposes. In the United States, non-US citizens entering the country for work purposes are generally required to get a visa. There are a few (and very few at that) business exceptions to this process, as listed here: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html He stated that he w…

Couldn't they have just given him the option of canceling his shows? I'm sure he would rather have done that than be forced to leave the country.

Re: America knows everything

#99

Post by jansen »

pjlegato wrote: post #90
benched wrote: post #27

Even as a U.S. citizen, every time I've traveled to other countries in the past few years, it's always jarring going from the hospitable, friendly customs people in the other countries, to the literally rude awakening of getting practically accosted by the agents in the U.S. upon returning.

Try Russia or Germany - neither country has border officials that could be described as "hospitable" or "friendly." They make US border guards look like teddy bears.

I cannot speak for Russia, but Germany cultivates a fundamental mentality of liberalism and respect, for any kind. It will be very difficult to find someone in Germany that wears a badge who has less than 13 years of school education or acts unreasonably, disrespectful or doesn't play by the rules.

Re: America knows everything

#100

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

tn13 wrote: post #89
pudquick wrote: post #24

While I agree that this person was probably treated very poorly, I also want to point out that they were traveling for work purposes. In the United States, non-US citizens entering the country for work purposes are generally required to get a visa. There are a few (and very few at that) business exceptions to this process, as listed here: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html He stated that he w…

Every now an then these kind of articles get popular on HN and someone points out that the person had done some wrong. I find it incredibly irritating. The reason why border security or any law enforcement agency exists is because we want to maintain reasonable order, one way to achieve it is enforcement of existing laws. But somehow enforcement of rules, some of which are highly questionable has taken center-stage o…

>But somehow enforcement of rules, some of which are highly questionable has taken center-stage over creating a sense of order.

Indeed. It is quite the serious problem.

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