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Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

joystiq.com

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Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#91

Post by jotm »

banachtarski wrote: post #83
jotm wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe that the trackball (very old tech might I say) hasn't replaced the analog sticks yet! People have already modded controllers with a trackball, and it works great for the most part, bringing the best of both worlds together, yet Sony and Microsoft still insist on using analog sticks...

The reason is because it doesn't work. How do you walk forward continuously for a long stretch? Do you roll it to some position and keep it there? Do you keep rolling?

Buttons!

Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#92

Post by lambda »

bbx wrote: post #51

Valve's main objective was probably to replicate the keyboard/mouse combo rather than improve or alter the standard joystick gamepad (like the X360 Controller). In the end, it looks like a controller halfway between these 2 types of input. The main problem with a controller-based "mouse" (and it shows in the video) is that you control the cursor with only your thumb rather than your full hand gently set down on your…

> I guess we'll never obtain a perfect alternative to the mouse.

Is that really what they're going for?

I don't think you should view the Steam Controller as the controller to end all controllers. From that point of view, I'm sure it will fail, and people will be disappointed.

Instead, it's a controller that makes PC games playable from the couch. It won't be quite as good as a mouse and keyboard for games that were designed around those. It probably won't be quite as good as a standard console controller for games that were designed around those (you don't have the physical buttons to roll your fingers over to hit particular combos quickly). But it should make both types of games playable on a single controller.

And once it's out, who knows. Maybe people will be able to design games specifically for this type of controller, and there will be some games that are best played on it.

Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#93

Post by Sanddancer »

jlgreco wrote: post #41
ahomescu1 wrote: post #24

Looking at this, I'm starting to wonder why trackballs on console controllers never became popular.

My guess: dirt. With as few moving parts as they typically have, console controllers already experience durability issues for less... hygienic, players. With trackballs that issue is compounded, even if you make them easily removable so you can clean them (just having to clean them at all would be more of a hassle than people are use to).

Logitech's optical trackballs are pretty bulletproof. No moving parts; they use a special dot pattern to detect how the trackball's being moved around.

Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#94

Post by socillion »

optymizer wrote: post #90
socillion wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There would be two disadvantages compared to traditional mouse-and-keyboard: 1) a low number of total possible bindings, and 2) a lower range of possible movements compared to a mouse. 1) is straightforward, if you don't have enough input buttons you're out of luck. A problem for games like SC2 and WoW. 2) this problem forces you to use acceleration for input, which is commonly accepted to ruin precision (reproducibi…

Having played all StarCraft games so far, somewhat well, I can get by with maybe 8 buttons as Protoss: A, H, E, P, B, V, G, Z. Other races might need other buttons, but 8 is reasonable. If I remember correctly, the Steam Controller has 16 buttons. The other functionality is 1 click away and is (usually) not hat time sensitive, if you are not from Korea :-) obviously it's not for competitive players. Also, flipping th…

> obviously it's not for competitive players.

Yep, I just wanted to explain why it isn't :) Having to click rather than press a key is a big downside, but if I remember correctly SC2 already has a keybind mode that limits you to a subset of the full qwerty keyboard. World of Warcraft is a good example of a PC game that uses a huge swathe of keyboard, players often have 30-60 unique keybinds.

My point about the 180 was that you need a wide range of different motions. Sometimes it'll be 170, sometimes 145, etc, sometimes only 2.4 degrees, and if a mouse user uses 1 swipe when you need 2 or 3 you're toast. A common tactic for Scouts in TF2 is to stay in the air above your head, which from experience is basically impossible to beat on a trackpad.

I'm looking forward to the Steambox/Steam controller, if only because I have quite a few Steam games accumulated and the biggest reason for me to avoid consoles is that I'd be forced to buy multiple copies of games.

Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#95

Post by purplelobster »

haberman wrote: post #74

I have never been able to get good at using analog sticks with FPSs. I'm so bad at it that if the game doesn't have auto-aim, I basically can't enjoy the game because I am sucking so badly. The problem for me is that the analog sticks are velocity-based; ie. you don't get to control the position directly, you can only control the first derivative of the position, the velocity. That means instead of just moving the co…

I used to be a serious CS player and when I use analog sticks I just feel physically handicapped. I don't like that feeling. I've tried and tried but reached a plateau on my analog skill that just I can't get past. It takes the joy out of any console FPS game and some over-the-shoulder RPGs. I think this controller can make me enjoy those games again.

Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#96

Post by manojlds »

haberman wrote: post #74

I have never been able to get good at using analog sticks with FPSs. I'm so bad at it that if the game doesn't have auto-aim, I basically can't enjoy the game because I am sucking so badly. The problem for me is that the analog sticks are velocity-based; ie. you don't get to control the position directly, you can only control the first derivative of the position, the velocity. That means instead of just moving the co…

> you can only control the first derivative of the position, the velocity.

Seriously? You should have stopped at "velocity-based"

Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#97

Post by saulrh »

manojlds wrote: post #96
haberman wrote: post #74

I have never been able to get good at using analog sticks with FPSs. I'm so bad at it that if the game doesn't have auto-aim, I basically can't enjoy the game because I am sucking so badly. The problem for me is that the analog sticks are velocity-based; ie. you don't get to control the position directly, you can only control the first derivative of the position, the velocity. That means instead of just moving the co…

> you can only control the first derivative of the position, the velocity. Seriously? You should have stopped at "velocity-based"

It's actually a useful thought to bring in. You can actually prove, mathematically, that controlling a system becomes "more difficult" in a few important ways when your input is to a derivative of the system rather than the system itself.

Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#98

Post by prawn »

haberman wrote: post #74

I have never been able to get good at using analog sticks with FPSs. I'm so bad at it that if the game doesn't have auto-aim, I basically can't enjoy the game because I am sucking so badly. The problem for me is that the analog sticks are velocity-based; ie. you don't get to control the position directly, you can only control the first derivative of the position, the velocity. That means instead of just moving the co…

Been a while since I played much with a K+M, but with analog sticks I find that my aiming technique involves a mixture of both moving and aiming. Gives a bit more control and stops me from being a motionless target at any point.
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